# Video: Refuge in the Storm Webinar Series, Part III: Caring for Crisis Workers June 04, 2024 ![untitled_600_x_400_px_8.png](/sites/g/files/omnuum5526/files/styles/hwp_16_9__480x270/public/hds2/files/untitled_600_x_400_px_8.png?itok=QMOheZV3) Full title: Refuge in the Storm Webinar Series, Part III: Caring for Crisis Workers- Buddhist Approaches to Stress Management and Self-Care This webinar is the third in a series offered by the Buddhist Ministry Initiative at Harvard Divinity School and featured a panel discussion of contributors to part III of Refuge in the Storm: Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care, edited by Nathan Jishin Michon. The panel included Shushin R.A. Peterson, Alex Baskin, and Acala Xiaoxi Wang, and was be co-moderated by Rev. Dr. Nathan Jishin Michon and Rev. Dr. Monica Sanford. Bios: **Shushin R.A. Peterson** Rev. R. A. Shushin Peterson, MDiv, BCC-HPC, is a priest in the Soto Shu tradition of Zen Buddhism. After spending nearly a decade in China and Taiwan, he served as an active duty Hospital Corpsman and Buddhist Lay Leader in the United States Navy, before attending seminary and receiving ordination through the Iwoji Temple lineage, Shinshiro, Japan. He now serves as the spiritual and bereavement care coordinator for hospice and long-term geriatric care at the VA Loma Linda Medical Center, and congregational priest at Sozenji Buddhist Temple, Montebello, CA. **Alex Baskin** Alex Baskin works as a full-time staff chaplain at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, serving mainly cardiac intensive care and organ transplant units. In 2022, he completed his MDiv at Harvard Divinity School, where his thesis focused on play/playfulness in Buddhism. While at HDS, Alex provided research assistance for the multi-institution “Mapping Buddhist Chaplains” project. He holds a BA in philosophy from Tufts, and served for years as a teaching assistant with a Buddhist studies program in Bodh Gaya, India. He has lived and worked at Insight Meditation Society in Barre, MA and at Cambridge Insight Meditation Center. Currently, Alex leads a local young-adult meditation community. He is a certified leader of the body wisdom modality InterPlay, and he also writes poetry, with works appearing in some small-press literary journals. **Acala Xiaoxi Wang** Rev. Acala is an ACPE Certified Educator Candidate and a Buddhist practitioner of the Thai Forest tradition. She serves for spiritual care education programs at New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, as well as for Chinese chaplaincy trainings from abroad, both since 2021. Acala received her lay Buddhist minister initiation in 2015. Her ministery is endorsed by Mid-America Buddhist Association. Acala has a Master of Divinity in Buddhist Chaplaincy from University of the West. She had her Clinical Pastoral Education Residency with Stanford Health Care and served as an interfaith chaplain there afterwards. Acala’s ministry experiences also include serviced as a Buddhist chaplain for Calipatria State Prison, and a Dharma teacher for Dharma Seal Temple. **Monica Sanford** Monica Sanford joined Harvard Divinity School as assistant dean for multireligious ministry in September 2021. Sanford comes to HDS from the Rochester Institute of Technology, where she became one of only two Buddhists in North America to lead a multireligious life department at a college or university. Sanford is one of the first full-trained Buddhist practical theologians in the United States, having earned her PhD in practical theology from Claremont School of Theology. Sanford also holds an undergraduate degree in design from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and a master of divinity degree from University of the West. Sanford is an ordained Buddhist lay minister in a Chan lineage and trained as a Buddhist chaplain. Her recent book, Kalyāṇamitra: A Buddhist Model for Spiritual Care (January 2021), is the first textbook for Buddhist chaplains. **Nathan Jishin Michon** Nathan Jishin Michon is a JSPS visiting scholar focused on Buddhist chaplaincy at Ryukoku University in Kyoto, Japan. Jishin is editor of Refuge in the Storm: Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care and A Thousand Hands: Guidebook to Caring for Your Buddhist Community, among other works. Jishin especially focuses their research on Japanese Buddhist chaplaincy, chaplain training, and contemplative forms of care. They previously helped in disaster relief and hospice care. This event took place on February 27, 2024. SPEAKER 1: Harvard Divinity School-- SPEAKER 2: Caring for crisis workers Buddhist Approaches to Stress Management and Self-Care, February 27, 2024. MONICA SANFORD: So thank you very much if you're just joining us for the third webinar in the series on Refuge in the Storm, Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care. Just to repeat, again, my name is Monica Sanford, and I'm the assistant dean for multireligious ministry at Harvard Divinity School. I want to acknowledge that Harvard Divinity School located in Cambridge and Boston is on the ancestral homelands of the Massachusetts people and that we honor and acknowledge that these are occupied lands taken from the Massachusetts people and they are the traditional stewards of these lands. So thank you all for joining us and to our wonderful authors and editors of this book, which is what we're drawing from today, Refuge in the Storm, Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care, edited by Nathan Jishin Michon, and available from North Atlantic Books. So if you haven't had an opportunity to check out this wonderful volume, please do either now or in the future. It's my great honor at this point to welcome the editor, Nathan Jishin Michon, who I will probably just call Nathan because that's how I was originally introduced to you many, many years ago at University of the West when we were both in California. So Nathan is a-- remind me of the acronym again. It's Japan-- NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Society for the Promotion of Science. MONICA SANFORD: Japan Society for the Promotion of Science visiting scholar. And he's focused on Buddhist chaplaincy at Ryukoku University in Kyoto, Japan. So Jishin is the editor of Refuge in the Storm, Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care and this wonderful book, A Thousand Hands, A Guidebook for Caring for Your Buddhist Community, which you can see I use a lot based on the number of tabs sticking out of it. He focuses on research on Japanese Buddhist chaplaincy, chaplain training, and contemplative forms of care. You also have previously helped in disaster relief and hospice care, both there in Japan and I think in the United States as well. Correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. OK. So as I mentioned, this is the third of these webinars that we're hosting. I'm going to put into the chat a link to the first webinar that is available on YouTube. And I'm going to put in one more link. This is the second webinar that is available on YouTube. So don't go watch them now, but maybe save those links. And you can go watch them later on the Harvard Divinity School YouTube page because they're both wonderful explorations of this very important topic. So welcome, Nathan. Welcome back. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you for having me back. \[CHUCKLES\] Wonderful to see you again. MONICA SANFORD: Yeah. So at the last two webinars, we talked very briefly at the beginning about some things that you share in the introduction to Refuge from the Storm and then from your chapter that comes a little bit later in the book. So for anyone who's interested in Nathan's views on compassion and some of the work that he's done in Japan, I've recommend those sections of the book. But Nathan, I also realize that you have brought together so many wonderful voices both in this book and in your previous anthology, A Thousand Hands, which I think has-- this has like almost 50 chapters. So almost 50 authors contributed to this book. And then this one has what? Like 20-odd chapters? NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Around 25. MONICA SANFORD: 25 chapters? So you've worked with 70-odd authors now who are Buddhist professionals, Buddhist chaplains working in the field, Buddhist psychotherapists doing disaster relief work. And I'm just wondering as an author yourself and an editor yourself and a chaplain yourself, what have you learned from working with this diverse group of people that maybe has even benefited you in the care that you're able to offer? NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think one of the great things about that is always learning how much I don't know. \[CHUCKLES\] There is just so much wisdom out there among all of these people. And I feel like, especially in this volume, it was a little more global. People are coming in from all over. And on the earlier talk we had, some of the representatives from Hong Kong and-- originally, like I-- when this call for papers was first sent out, I just invited people to keep passing it along. And suddenly, the proposals were rolling in from these different countries and areas. And I was just like, wow, this is beautiful and amazing, slightly overwhelming. But it was really wonderful to see. Also, I mean, somewhat maybe always eye-opening too just as far as all of the different crises going on in the world, especially at that time, and all the different people affected in different ways. But at the same time, really, really heartwarming to see all the different responses to that suffering and kind of a reminder of how in Buddhism we have these Four Noble Truths. And sometimes people focus so much on that first one. There's suffering in the world but also how there are all these other three parts of the Four Noble Truths and the origin and the response to that suffering and to see how all these people are helping with that. So it was again also just really heartwarming to just to point out. Again, we ended up separating this particular book into four different sections. So there was the more large-scale crises and then the second section we put as more life cycle crises especially focused on sickness, aging, and death and dying. And then the third part, which is our focus for today, more focused on self-care and care for care workers because anyone working a full-time job in these sorts of fields, there can be a lot of stress, a lot of burnout over the long term. And so this kind of self-care and care for those in the field is also extremely important. And then finally, a section on education and training for people in this line of work. And yeah, it was just a really wonderful experience to see all the different-- even little innovations. Just to mention one example, Stephanie Barnes or Repa Nyima Ozer. She ended up applying a Tibetan mandala into the actual space of the hospital and the ICU that she was working at. And so the space in the design of the building happened to somewhat resemble the structure of a mandala. And so she applied the different colors and with some different strategies as far as what people wanted to be working on in themselves, what they wanted to be focusing on, maybe like peace of mind or relaxation or happiness, joy in their work. And so they could just take a little ribbon of color representing that section of the mandala to put on themselves as a reminder for that time or that period and also walking around the structure, being reminded of these different qualities that they wanted to embody. And so it was a really interesting way. Of course not-- most of the people there were not Buddhist. But to take a little Buddhist strategy and apply it even into the space itself I thought was really, really cool and hadn't heard of anything like that before. And so just all these interactions with everyone being exposed to all these different strategies and innovations that people are coming up with has been really, really special experience. MONICA SANFORD: That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that, Nathan. I was just telling Shushin before we got started that I used a chapter out of this in a class that I'm teaching here at Harvard Divinity School a few weeks ago, the chapter on koans, because I wanted to teach my students about case studies. And a koan is a case. So how can something that's almost like a riddle, like a koan, be used in case study work? And sure enough, Shushin provided exactly the example that I needed right here in this book because that's not a question I really knew how to answer. My practice is not Zen Buddhist, so I hadn't really used koans in that way. So thank you, Shushin. I'm glad we'll get to hear from you a little bit later in the conversation. So before we transition into hearing directly from our authors, I just want to welcome anyone who's joined a little bit late. Again, my name is Monica Sanford, and I'm the assistant dean for multireligious ministry here at Harvard Divinity School. I'm a Buddhist chaplain myself, and I study Buddhist chaplains. And I'm welcoming Nathan Jishin Michon who is the editor of Refuge in the Storm, Buddhist Voices in Crisis Care. And he's going to introduce three of the authors who during this webinar are speaking on behalf of part three, which is caring for crisis workers, Buddhist approaches to stress management and self-care, which we all could do with a lot more of. At least, I know that I could, so I'm so glad to have the three of our authors here with us. For those of you who are listening, if you have questions, please put them into the Q&A function, which is down at the bottom of your Zoom screen. Put them in at any point in time. And we will get to them closer to the end of our time together. We've got about 90 minutes. So if you want your question answered earlier in that time period so that you can go on with your evening, please go ahead and put it in the Q&A function at any point that it comes up in your mind. And I will be looking at those, and we will try to get those answered as best we can. All right. Nathan, have I missed anything or forgotten anything? NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: It's all sounding good. MONICA SANFORD: OK. Would you like to introduce the first of your authors? NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Sure. And maybe I'll just briefly first say other names and the chapters they wrote and then do a more in-depth introduction as we talk with each of them. MONICA SANFORD: All right. Sounds good. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: So today we have Acala Wang who's the author of the chapter "ICU Staff Anxieties Originations and Cessations," and Shushin Peterson, who's author of two chapters actually, "Experiments in Mindfulness, A Collaborative Health Care Staff Support Program" and "Reflecting Clear Moonlight, When Modern Chaplaincy Embodies a Living Koan." And we also have Alex Baskin, who wrote "A Playful Dharma Connecting to Our Bodies, Connecting to One Another." So it's a real pleasure to have each of you here today. And I think I will just go in that order. So first up, we'll hear from Acala. And just to say a little bit more about her, Acala Wang is an ACPE-certified educator candidate and a Buddhist practitioner of the Thai Forest Tradition. She serves for spiritual care education programs at New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, as well as for Chinese chaplaincy trainings from abroad, both since 2021. Acala received her lay Buddhist minister initiation in 2015. Her ministry is endorsed by Mid-American Buddhist Association. Acala has a Master of Divinity in Buddhist Chaplaincy from University of the West, and she had her clinical pastoral education residency with Stanford Health Care and served as an interfaith chaplain there afterwards. Acala's ministry experiences also includes service as a Buddhist chaplain for Calipatria State Prison. Did I say that right? \[CHUCKLES\] Calipatria State Prison and a dharma teacher for Dharma Seal Temple, involved in so many things on both sides of the continent. So wonderful to have your voice here today. And I was wondering first, Acala, would you mind to say a little bit more about the work that you were doing recently in New York and what roles you were helping there with other care providers? ACALA XIAOXI WANG: Sure. Happy to. And thank you so much for your wonderful introduction, Nathan. So nice to see you today and see-- NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: You too. ACALA XIAOXI WANG: --everybody. So right now, I'm doing a remote mentorship for New York Zen Center, which located physically in New York. But I'm in California. So I'm a mentor of a program called Foundations in Contemplative Care, which is a little bit like introduction to chaplaincy. So this is a hybrid program that open to all the people all over the world. We have students who are from like China, from like Europe, from, of course, United States, Canada, and all over the world. It's really a program designed for people who are not or who are preparing themselves to enter chaplaincy or just want to learn more of how to be in relationship with themselves and with other people in a more caring, compassionate relationship. So we are using a Soto Zen based actually. The precepts of Soto Zen, we use them as not only a moral standard but how we look at them into our daily life detail by detail, how we really treating ourselves, our mind, our heart, our speech, and our actions, and compassion, and with contemplation. So it's really a program bring people's Buddhist practice. And a lot of our students are not really Buddhist. They have their own spiritual practice, but that's OK. It's like how they can bring their own contemplation, their own spiritual practice, deepening into that embodiment in their own life so that there's a integration between their spiritual practice and how they are really caring for themselves and others. So it is a nine-month program that we are doing. Some people are based in New York. Some people are doing remote work like me. And we have this upcoming May. It's a closing retreat where I'll be all gathering in New York. So \[? urally, ?\] that is a really wonderful time for people to present how they learned, how they integrate their practice with care, whether that's with a hospital volunteer program or whether it's with their own family and friends and how they develop within themselves. They present that in that closing retreat. Yeah, that's plenty to say. That's the work I'm doing, so. Every year, we are open the application to everybody. So if you are interested, you can go to zencare.org and take a look if that's a program for you to explore. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you. Yeah. From what I know of that program and the people there, really, really wonderful work. If you don't mind, could we turn to your chapter for a little bit as well? And you have a number of beautiful parts of the story in this chapter. And it's about caring for a deeply stressed team at a hospital and the process of creating and leading. At least in part of it is the process of creating and leading a morning exercise for this team. So I was wondering if you wouldn't mind reading a selection from that chapter, we especially dealing with the reflection for these nurses? ACALA XIAOXI WANG: Yeah, sure. So before I read a very short paragraph from this chapter, I would say like for many-- in my experience like in health care place of work, \[? urally, ?\] people are so busy. It's like we all know how so many places are understaffed and how much pressure the medical team are facing every day and taking care of a crisis for the family not only during the pandemic like in this book, which is my chapter was talking about but also like how every day the health care workers give ourselves so little time for a moment of just grounding, making connection, and feeling nourished. So really, it's so important and critical for me that self-care-- it's like we have to make time to have this team supporting each other. Even it's just five minutes in the morning, it will make a difference. So I would encourage you. Like whenever you feel so stressed-- and how do you initiate-- like a little-- during your huddle time or in your work office or whenever you feel ah, seems everybody's in stress. Like how can I initiate just maybe five minutes or two minutes for everyone? Just take a moment in silence or feeling how we really are in this moment and give ourselves a little bit of comfort by reflecting and embodying, embracing ourselves. So this section, it's including-- just six line, including a small practice that we can all do by both holding our body and reflecting on our feelings and our thoughts. So this heart, body, mind all together really brings this integration. So I would invite yourself as you're sitting in front of this computer maybe gently closing your eyes. And if you are next to somebody and if you are feeling comfortable, you might look at each other in a kind eye and then come back to yourself. And make a little huddle gesture to yourself, holding both arms. And close your eyes. Relax your whole body. Relax your mind. And just listen or allow the voice to pass by. Hugging myself, I allow my heart to feel the grief, sorrow, fear, and heaviness. Hugging myself, I allow my body to feel the warmth, security, comfort, and relief. Hugging myself, I allow my mind to feel centered, calm, peaceful, and compassionate. Now that's the sixth line. If you feel comfortable, you may continue to hug yourself for a moment or really feel in this moment what's in your heart. Like I was reading about grief, about sorrow, fear, but what do you feel in this moment in your body? And how do you allow the warmth that from this gentle hugging, from this warmth of your body to soothe you? OK. Thank you. You may gently open your eyes and come back to the screen. So this little exercise, I would encourage you to try out yourself whenever you feel stressed out, whenever you feel, oh, maybe in this moment, I don't have friends or I don't have a loved one to hug me, to listen to me. Like how do you also support yourself? By giving yourself a little more support. Like remembering like only if we ourselves are centered, ourselves are having this compassion mind for ourselves that we can go to care for others. Sometimes I feel we forgot to take care of herself, or we feel, oh, I don't have time. I don't deserve it. Or even if I take care for myself, what about my life responsibilities that involves others? But if we are imbalanced, it's really hard to continue in providing the care that nourishes your self and your relationships. So I would say develop a practice. And if you have another one that feels like a ritual for you or feels like something really grounding like \[EXHALES\] really a deep breath, that's helpful. That only takes five seconds. I would say develop a habit of doing so will be really helpful during any crisis or any surprises of the life. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you. I feel better already. \[CHUCKLES\] So also, your chapter as this protagonist is preparing such exercises, she also has to essentially do some self-care for herself in that process and makes use of some different exercises. So would you mind sharing some of those as well? ACALA XIAOXI WANG: Yeah, sure. Like what I said, I really enjoy the breathing practice as well. For me, even though we talk about like, oh, how do we care when crisis comes? But for me, it's really about a habit that even we don't practice every day. But if we can like remember, sometimes when Buddhism, we talk on mindfulness. And another translation for mindfulness to remember, remember what are the helpful, skillful actions that you've developed, you've done in the past. So really, it's never too late to begin to practice, even it's a simple habit that you develop that will make you feel, OK, I can support myself, ground myself in the moment. So I would introduce one. Actually, it's our schoolmate in the past, Arun, who introduced this method to so many people on the campus and one of the benefactors. So it's really taking a deep breath and release all the stress and tensions in your body \[EXHALES\] in your out breath. It's actually not that easy to do, but once you can really feel the reliefing, that's where you can rely on it. Always come back to it when you feel stressed out because like we \[INAUDIBLE\] unconsciously like me, I didn't know. Before my meditation practice, I didn't know I hold so much pressure and tension in my body. Like our body and mind are so closely related. We forget how it feels like to release all the tension. So this practice, it's very simple, but I would say if it feels hard for you or it's hard for you to feel, oh, I'm releasing all the tensions, you are not the only one. It's very common. And how do you try it again? Not giving up. And I really take the time to take the long breaths and feel you can relax part by part of your body. That's another-- if you have a little longer time for you to practice is to relax all the muscles, all those small muscles from your body, your forehead, muscles on your cheek, muscles of your jaw, and how to open your shoulder a little bit, how to relax the muscles in your stomach, in your hands, in your arm, like really even holding your fist and then open. \[EXHALES\] We feel that. So it's like those small practice you can develop. That includes both of your body and your mind. Breathing, muscle relaxation are all very helpful small practice. If you are in the medical field, like, how do you take the time to just really wash your hands before you enter a room, after you leave a room, or gel your hands. So those practice that embodies. We talk about integration and embodiment but really actually involves a bodily action. It's so helpful to help your mind and your feelings to be more centered and grounded as you involve your whole body. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thanks. \[CHUCKLES\] I'll have to remember that today while washing my hands as well. \[CHUCKLES\] Thank you. And yeah, thanks so much for sharing with us today. And we'll come back to you in a moment as well once we get to the Q&A, but thank you for sharing. And we'll also talk for a moment with Shushin Peterson and transition now. And so Shushin, also thank you so much for being here with us today. And again, Shushin, one of the-- possibly the only one who contributed two chapters to this book. Yeah, I guess there was me, too, but yeah. So he really wrote a lot for this volume and shared a lot of his wisdom with us in this particular book. But just to say a little bit more about Shushin, Shushin Peterson, he has an MDiv and BCC-HPC. He's a priest in the Soto-shu tradition of Zen Buddhism. And after spending nearly a decade in China and Taiwan, he served as an active duty hospital corpsman and Buddhist lay leader in the US Navy before attending seminary and receiving ordination through Iwoji Temple lineage in Shinshiro, Japan. He now serves as the spiritual and bereavement care coordinator for hospice and long-term geriatric care at the VA Loma Linda Medical Center. And he's a congregate-- sorry. \[CHUCKLES\] My mouth is still warming up this morning early here in Japan. Congregational priest at Sozenji Buddhist Temple in Montebello, California. So again, thank you so much for being with us today. SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: Thank you very much for having me and inviting me to be part of this webinar series. I don't know how much wisdom there is to be had, but a lot of what I wrote about are just things that I struggle with myself. My mother once told me that folks in our family tend to gravitate towards the work and the practices which we have the biggest problems with the things that make the least sense to us. And so trying to get away from a hard intellectualism is extremely hard for me. And so going into chaplaincy where it is not about specific answers and clear-cut responses, I bang my head against that pretty much every day. But hopefully, in those situations, we can grow. And so thank you. Yeah. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: I definitely feel those issues myself too. Thanks. So one of your chapters was especially focused on what you called this stress management mindfulness series. So would you mind briefly introducing that and your role in that project? SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: Absolutely. This was a program which we developed at our specific medical center in response to the sharp increase in distress among our staff during the height of the COVID pandemic starting in 2020. It was designed as a 15-minute call in mindfulness session where people could call in during the day. We didn't have webcams or anything else to try and limit distractions. And a rotating group of mindfulness practitioners would lead exercises. I was part of that group. I was the only chaplain on that group. I was also the only self-proclaimed Buddhist on that group. And so it was very fascinating to see how secular mindfulness was presented compared to, in my mind, Buddhist mindfulness. I talk a little bit in the chapter about it's sort of problematic to say both secular or Buddhist mindfulness, but we don't really have a lot of time to delve into those nuances here. But the biggest thing that I noticed and that I still try to struggle with is, again, somewhat odd because it goes a little bit against my own Soto Zen tradition which focuses on mindfulness, which is mostly just here and now present awareness of what is going on in the body and in the mind. One of the things that helped me the most was honestly in exploring the Pali Canon and Buddhist traditions outside of my own practice tradition. And the one that especially in this situation really sort of rang the gong was the phrase that all phenomenon are conditioned by desire. And that's from the rooted sutra AN 10:58. And what that ultimately means is anything that we encounter has already been conditioned by our desires. And here desire is not just wanting, but it's our biases, our preconceptions, our hopes, our dreams, our disappointments, all of those overlays. And it presents a real challenge to the idea that you can ever be nonjudgmental. And so then the question is, if everything that we encounter is already seeped in these biases and preconceptions many of which we are not even aware of, some people might say, well, that means it's a hopeless cause. But a good response to that is instead of saying that it's hopeless to find true reality, we again have to remember our Four Noble Truths. The Buddha did not come and proclaim, I'm here to teach you true reality. The Buddha came and proclaimed, I'm here to relieve suffering. And so the question then becomes how to utilize mindfulness as a way to direct our intention towards the relief of suffering, whether or not what is happening is objective reality, which is ultimately beyond all of us. So it was fascinating going through with mostly psychologists who were doing the secular mindfulness. And in terms of the relief of suffering, it sort of hinged on the question of behavior and what are the rules for our behavior since phenomena, conditions, feelings, emotions, distress, it comes up. And then if you stick with it long enough, it'll go away no matter what. And so then the question then is, what type of resistance or distress are we feeling, and why are we feeling it? And what is that trying to tell us since? And that needs sort of an external framework of morality, of behavioral rules. And in the Buddhist tradition, it boils down to the Eightfold Noble Path that tells us that there are right actions, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, all of which implies that there are wrong ways to do these. And so a sort of a very gross example would be-- actually came up this weekend. We had a pretty large ceremony at our temple, and we had visitors from the Oakland Zen Center. I was talking about this with one of the residential priests there, Ruki-san. And he was saying that most of the people who come to the center, their day jobs are acting as mindfulness coaches for a lot of the big tech companies. And the reason the big tech companies want mindfulness teachers is to increase the productivity of their workers. The purpose of mindfulness is to increase a worker's productivity. And that enters into like a very big question of, does increasing productivity and increasing profits relieve suffering? I have my own opinions about that, the response to that, but it sort of goes to show that mindfulness by itself can be used to improve anyone or any action. In the military, there are mindfulness classes to help snipers shoot better. And is killing people a relief of suffering? Again, I have my opinions, but it needs to have something else to guide it so that when feelings arise-- if these feelings are detrimental to the pursuit and the relief of suffering or if they're trying to tell you that what you're planning to do next is actually going to cause more suffering-- and hence should be acknowledged in a different way. And all of this was really hard to sort of unpack, especially with 15-minute mindfulness sessions each day with a bunch of psychologists. But it really began me thinking about how Buddhism, especially as it becomes more popular in common culture and especially as mindfulness itself becomes more popular in health care settings, how to start having the conversations of what are we doing this for, what is the purpose of the mindfulness practices, and what frameworks are we using to help guide what we are using our mindfulness practices for. Like even in the COVID situation, are we using this to relieve stress for our health care workers so that they can go back into COVID rooms without the proper PPE? Because at that time, we had very limited supplies. And is that a way to honor our frontline staff? And whose welfare is more important, the patient or the frontline staff? And all of these were sort of deeper questions which couldn't be answered, but I think that they need to be held within Buddhist practitioners who are engaged in these as we move forward, again, because it's hard to say where our current secular path of mindfulness in the United States is leading us right now. But yeah. Thank you. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you. Yeah. I'll just add. As you said, there's a lot to this issue. And we don't have time to get into all the nuances today, but you cover so many great points within this chapter, especially on those ethical questions, and these incorporating, looking at how different parts of Buddhist perspectives of mindfulness might be incorporated and inform the secular forms of mindfulness that are becoming so popular because some of these questions are so important. I also want to at least touch a little bit on the other chapter that you contributed, which, as Monica mentioned, focuses on these koans but also spiritual assessment. And so I've seen Zen adapted into spiritual care in many ways before, but this use of koans is not nearly as common. So would you mind briefly describing that practice and how you adapt it into your framework? SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: Certainly. As I sort of mentioned before, like my personality is that I very much like clear, hard answers, pure intellectual responses where there is a proper answer and all of the other answers are improper. And that doesn't work well in the relationship that happens when a chaplain enters into a room. And so touching-- when I started to experience koan practice on my parallel priest formation, I was sort of surprised to find that it was a way to try and hold relationship when you either don't know what to do or cannot do something, especially as a chaplain going into, in my situation, hospital rooms. There are always questions of health. And I am not a health care provider. There are always questions of, will I get better? That's not something I can do. I'm going to lose my house because I can't pay my rent because I'm in the hospital for three months. Again, as a chaplain, nothing I can do about that. There is so much acute suffering which have specific causes. And the resolution of those issues are all outside of the chaplain's ability to fix. And so what are you supposed to do, and why do people still feel that chaplains are necessary and helpful? And I found the koan practice of holding questions where you hold a question and see how it embodies as opposed to answering the questions to be very useful. The thing that infuriates me about the koan is that when people say it embodies it, like, what does that mean? What does any of this mean? Like, what is the hard answer? And that doesn't exist, but it starts to sort of develop when you feel a resonance between yourself and the patient a mutual understanding which usually shows itself as empathy and compassion. And a lot of times, at least in my experience, both as a patient and as a chaplain, when people feel seen, a lot of the stress and the suffering that comes from an outside situation somehow evaporates. And so the chapter was really about what we can do with our own work and our own bodies and minds to create the space to hold that type of relationship. And again, it's really annoying for myself when I started this practice, and I often get the sense for other people because again there's no strict guidelines or specific rules about first do this, then do this, then do this. And it really requires an intuitive trust in the process and a willingness to go in without knowing what you're going to say or what's going to happen. And yet somehow through some magical alchemy, there comes a point of connection, and the relief is palpable. And so yeah, the chapter was very much about how to work with that and also at least on the educational side of things sort of the requirements and needs for chaplains and their education process to be able to hold those spaces without our own pasts and priorities overriding the situations. Yeah. Thank you. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you so much. \[CHUCKLES\] Again, a complex variety of nuances in that whole chapter, but you summarized it really nicely. So thank you. And yes, I definitely recommend reading these if people want to hear a little more about those topics. But for now, we'll tr-- again, we'll hear from Shushin at the end during the Q&A. And if you have any questions popping up in your mind for Acala or Shushin, please feel free to write those in the chat, and we will get to them by the end of this session. But for now, we'll transition over to Alex. And Alex Baskin, wonderful to have you here today. So just say a little bit about you first. Alex works as a full-time staff chaplain at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. And he serves mainly cardiac intensive care and organ transplant units. In 2022, he completed his MDiv at Harvard Divinity School, where his thesis focused on play and playfulness in Buddhism. While at HDS, Alex provided research assistants for the multi-institution Mapping Buddhist Chaplains Project. And he holds a BA in philosophy from Tufts and served for years as a teaching assistant with a Buddhist studies program in Bodh Gaya, India. He has lived and worked at Insight Meditation Society in Barre, Massachusetts and at Cambridge Insight Meditation Center. And currently, Alex leads a young or a local young adult meditation community. He's a certified leader of the body wisdom modality InterPlay, and he also writes poetry with works appearing in some small press literary journals. It's wonderful to have you with us today, Alex. ALEX BASKIN: Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me for the webinar and to be a part of the book. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for your wonderful chapter in that. Again, on play. And so on this-- many of these chapters could honestly fit into numerous parts of the sections of the books that we talked about earlier. So it was honestly a little bit challenging to actually pick a specific spot for each chapter because the themes really are quite interwoven. And your chapter definitely is as well. But definitely, this idea of play is also really important in self-care and even though maybe not everyone thinks of the idea of play or even allows themselves to play. But your chapter nicely brings a lot of those themes in for us. So to start off, as your bio mentioned, InterPlay. And I was wondering since your chapter also talks a lot about this, would you mind briefly introducing InterPlay and your relationship to it? ALEX BASKIN: Sure. Happy to. So InterPlay, which is capital I, capital P, one word, InterPlay, is its own sort of system, like copyrighted system. It was created in the '80s in Oakland, California-- where else?-- by some seminarians, some Christian seminarians who thought of themselves as dancing ministers. Their names are Cynthia Winton-Henry and Phil Porter. And they were finding that-- so they're from kind of like White mainline Protestant denominations, and they were finding that their-- and they were also dancers. The dance world, the kind of modern dance world, was very secular, and they wanted to bring spirituality into that space. But they al-- and they also found that their spiritual communities, their churches were very kind of stuck and not much body in that space. So they wanted to kind of bring embodiment and spirituality together. So InterPlay uses creative active approaches for unlocking the wisdom of the body. That's like the tagline. So it's basically like a series of forms and practices we can do that kind of build up incrementally that use voice and use movement and storytelling in ways that try to be very accessible. Like you don't have to be a good singer or a good dancer or anything. You don't have to be good at it. These are something-- these are like practices that everyone has a right to, everyone has a right to play, basically. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thanks. And I heard you have a short sample practice for us today. Would you like \[INAUDIBLE\] ALEX BASKIN: Yeah, thanks. Let's see. How do I want to do this? Well, first of all, we've been on this webinar for 50 minutes now, so it's a long time actually to be in front of a screen. So everywhere, all the participants, we can't see you because of the webinar video format anyway. We can't see you, but I would invite you. No one's forcing anything. But if you-- I'll just guide us through a couple of things, and then I'll-- yeah, I'll guide us through a couple of things. If this feels good to you, you can take one of your arms and give it a shake. Just like shake it out a little bit. Maybe a big shake or a little shake. And don't do anything that's going to hurt yourself. So if one arm doesn't want to move, it doesn't have to. You can give your other arm a shake. Maybe this arm wants more or wants less. And again, like don't-- you take good care of your body-- if you know that something's weird with your shoulder, don't do anything foolish. And you can take one of your legs just under the desk, wherever you are, and give your leg a shake, and just bringing some movement into that. And give your other leg a shake, some movement over there. And you can shake out your voice a little bit like \[VOCALIZING\] And then shake your whole body all at once, just like full body shake. And you take a deep breath, and let it out with a sigh like \[SIGHS\] Yeah. So OK, that was the intro. That was the pre-practice, practice. And now here's the real practice. And again, the whole idea here is to be moving towards what feels good, what would cultivate joy, what cultivates pleasure in the body. So just keep that as your guiding light. It's not a performance. It's not about impressing anyone else. It's about what feels good to you. So if it feels OK to you, you can lift one of your hands up and let it move smoothly. Just like it's moving through the air with like a gentle breeze. And you can change your arm at any time if this one gets tired. And still letting it move smooth, but let it start moving a little faster, like that breeze is picking up and it's kind of your hand is just moving through the air a little faster. And then let your hand start moving around in a more jerky way, like it's just kind of getting whipped around, jerking over here and there. And then stop and make a shape. So just stopping and holding your hand in some kind of shape, taking a breath. And now change the shape of your hand. And now change the shape of your hand again. And make a little change to the shape of your hand. Make a really big change to the shape of your hand. And then move your hand as far away from the rest of your body as you can like really taking up space. And then bringing your hand in contact with something else in your body or maybe with something nearby you, like a chair or something. Finding another point of contact, finding another point of contact. OK, that is called a one-hand dance. And this is kind of the vocabulary of the one-hand dance. It's smooth, jerky, fast, slow, far, near, contact, shaping. So I'm going to put on a piece of music, and we are going to try this together. Again, yeah, just seeing what would feel fun, what would feel interesting or joyful to you. This would just be a two-minute song that I need to share. OK, let's see. \[MUSIC PLAYING\] And take another deep breath. You can, hm, you can give your body another little shake. And that's the one-hand dance. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: \[CHUCKLES\] Thank you very much. I feel more joyful. \[CHUCKLES\] So thank you again. And I was wondering to put a little more context into that and such, would you mind reading a little excerpt from your chapter as well? ALEX BASKIN: Sure. Yeah, happy to. OK, so I'm going to read almost two pages of this. I am writing this in the year 2020. It's a fraught moment in history. We watched aghast as death claimed innocent lives through an invisible virus and through the centuries-long tentacles of systemic racism. Are times like that really a time for play? When I talk about playing, I'm not thinking of frivolity, and I'm definitely not referring to escape. I'm speaking about ways of playing that get in touch with reality by experiencing it anew. Consider this painful parallel between the coronavirus pandemic and white supremacy. Both disconnect us from our personal bodies and from the group body. Remote learning and working meant that many of us stared at screens more than ever, often neglecting how physically tight we became in the process. Plus, our bodies freak many of us out. They remind us of our mortality, which a virus can underline with red marker. Physical distancing guidelines promote social isolation, leaving us disconnected from one another. For many, the pandemic meant little experience of hugging a friend. Thus, the era of the coronavirus dissociated us from our bodies and from our neighbors. Systemic racism prompts a corresponding problem. Based on our social power location, white supremacy leaves us disembodied either through a false though internalized sense of superiority or through the pervasive trauma of the threat of violence. The rigid hierarchies of white supremacy control bodies. Our bodies can look what behavior is acceptable and where bodies can place themselves. Resmaa Menakem uses the term white body supremacy to emphasize this aspect. The construct of race creates a wound in the collective group body, leaving us separate, segregated, and afraid of one another. These two pandemics, coronavirus and racism, should not be equated as entirely the same, yet both generate dynamics in which we face difficulties embracing our own bodies and embracing one another. Ideas will not save us. Thinking really hard will not get us out of any of these crises. We need practices that connect us to our bodies and to one another. Playing allows us to become aware of the body. Buddhist teachings proclaim that the sustained practice of suttee leads to liberation from suffering. This word from Pali, the language of early Buddhist texts, is often translated as mindfulness, though it has no etymological relationship to the word mind, suttee is derived from the term for memory. We remember to maintain awareness of what we do as we do it. Body fullness is as good a translation. The Buddha talked about bringing suttee to all activities, standing, walking, eating, getting dressed, and going to the bathroom. Silent still-bodied meditation is just one way to train in suttee. It is not the whole path to liberation, and it does not work best for everyone. Many of us need to wiggle more. When I get up from my meditation cushion, from a laptop screen, or from a book as I invite you to do for a moment right now and I shake or stretch or squirm for several seconds, I remember what it feels like to be a human body. Seriously, please look away from this and move for a brief moment. Not only does playing develop our body awareness, but it also connects us to others. Buddhist traditions maintain that sangha, a Pali term often translated as community, is one of the only sources of reliable refuge in our chaotic world. We do not just need really good self-care. We need one another. When we create something like a hand dance with others, taking turns, riffing off the movement we just witnessed, we become attuned to those we are playing with. We build community not as an abstract notion but as a somatic relationship. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Well, thank you. And I'm also wondering if you can summarize briefly, how would you use this style of play as a tool to interact with stressed out nurses or chaplains in an ICU versus patients? And what maybe differences might there be, and can you give just a-- I know it might be a complex answer, but if you can provide it in a bit of a summary for us right now, that would be really nice to hear. ALEX BASKIN: Sure. When I wrote this chapter, I was still in Divinity School, and I think I was a little idealistic. I really was a little annoyed at first that the chapter was put in the self-care section because I felt like, no, no, no, playing is not just self-care for care workers. It's also a form of spiritual care for care seekers. I think now-- so that was a few years ago. Now I've done four units of CPE. I work full-time as a chaplain and in a hospital on ICUs. And in a really high acuity setting, it's not the most realistic thing to be bringing this to patients necessarily, or at least, I haven't quite figured out how. I'm still new at this kind of work, so I'm curious about that. There is this like-- there's this iconic InterPlay story about this woman who was an interplayer who was dying from cancer and who brought that to her regular InterPlay group. And they did a lot of play with her cancer, with her anticipatory grief. And that group became about stewarding her through the last eight months or so of her life. So it definitely can be this kind of-- a form of spiritual care that's someone who's really bought in who just kind of bringing this to patients and families in the midst of a crisis I don't know so much about yet. But I've been doing this with others in my CPE cohorts, with other chaplains. So now I am kind of like, yeah, I think self-care is probably the right chapter for this to be in care for care workers. So yeah, I've been playing with some other chaplains. And others have found this supportive with the really intense kind of vicarious trauma that we're taking on, that this can be a good way to discharge that. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you. And yes, thanks for your activities as well today. I feel discharged. \[CHUCKLES\] So yeah, thank you and to all the other speakers who were with us as well. And now we'll bring everybody back together. And if there's questions, we'll bring up those. And otherwise, I can ask some questions for everyone too. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you, Nathan. Thank you, Acala. Thank you, Shushin. Thank you, Alex. So the question and answer function is open if you have questions. Those of you who are joining us on this webinar, please go ahead and type them in, and I will be happy to read them out and have our authors answer them. Shushin has let me know, however, that he has something, so I'm going to toss to him to start us out. SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: Yes, thank you. This is a comment followed by a question for Chaplain Alex. I really appreciated the practice that we just did together. And when you were talking about play connecting us, probably the biggest event in my own recent life was the birth and now growth and childhood of my daughter and finding how play has connected us. And even from looking at all of us on the panel, I'm the stuffy person in the suit and the tie and so like having that avenue of connection. And it was also interesting with parenthood both seeing past cycles or karma, if you would like to say, coming up and being able to deal with that in a far more focused way and also, of course, bringing up questions about the role of parenthood for someone who is an active practitioner. But that is neither here nor there. But my question that I was also thinking about when sort of musing was that, again, looking at myself in my suit, working at a nice government facility where formality and rigidity and lack of emotion are the norms and taken to the extent where even uniforms are used to hide behind, clothing is used to hide, when you were reading your chapter about the need to break down and reconnect, how would you allow people to overcome their fear of doing that? ALEX BASKIN: Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I'm not sure I know the answer. As chaplains, we meet people where they're at, and we try not to rush people's processes. So it can look smaller than maybe like the one-hand dance, even. That might be really risky for a lot of people, I get that. So I mean, I loved the stuff that both of you talked about. I mean, even-- I mean, I know-- it's true that mindfulness has become pretty mainstream. And still bringing in stillness, bringing in stopping what we're doing, things that aren't productive is actually kind of radical, right? And so yeah. I mean, it might be enough to actually ask people to take a deep breath and let it out with an audible sigh. That might be a lot, and that might be interesting and great and cool. So I don't know. That's my first shot at an answer. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you, Shushin and Alex. And I have this question, too, because on the weekends, I am the Buddhist chaplain at a high school. And so I go from Harvard Divinity School with grad students who I can lead in a mindfulness exercise in class. And they're all like stone statues. Like we are very serious Harvard grad students. And if you ask us to meditate, we can sit like rocks. And they're all really good at it. And then I go to this high school where most of the students I work with aren't Buddhist and aren't going to become Buddhist, and they are so squirmy. It's just wonderful to watch. They'll sit there and play with their hair, and they'll move their hands. And so to me, I feel like I need this InterPlay education because trying to train them in mindfulness by sitting like rocks and watching their breath is just not going to cut it. They have so much energy. But I feel like when I ask them to actually use their energy in a mindful way-- like the other day, we did a consecration ceremony for a new Buddhist image. And I said, OK, now this mantra, we're going to shout, right? And I led them through it. Like I don't have it in front of me now, but we can say om mani padme hum and like om. And they would repeat mani. And then like, OK, now we're going to say it three times as loud as we can. They were in-- they loved that. I could feel the energy coming out of them in the room. So I'm thinking particularly with different audiences who have just energy from tension, from stress, from being teenagers in a very stressful life that I could really see that. So Alex, I might need you to come and teach me some of these InterPlay things and recognize that I'm a good old-fashioned Nebraska girl. And it makes me extremely uncomfortable to do anything with my body. My body is for digging fence post holes and carrying my head around. That's what it's for. So I need you to come help me with this, please. ALEX BASKIN: We say that-- well, I didn't come up with this, but InterPlay is for recovering serious people. MONICA SANFORD: Q&A. And I'm also going to invite our panelists if you have questions to ask each other. I know, Nathan, you could probably talk with all of your authors for a very long time as could I, but, Acala and Alex, if you have questions for one another, that is also most welcome. ACALA XIAOXI WANG: I don't have a question, but just our discussion about this InterPlay just reminded of practice for serious people. \[CHUCKLES\] Like I used to be like very serious like Monica-- like your student was like, I can sit without any movement for two hours. Its like that was where my mind was initially when I try to establish a practice. But then I learned like so much about in my first tradition is a lot of the training is really not about how much longer I can sit, but its about like, how do I see? What's my mind's tendency are? OK, if I'm trying to be a serious person, how can I be a little playful? And if not for another person, the teaching might be the opposite. If they are the one who is like spreading their energy, their joys all the time, how can they practice to be a little still? Like really challenging ourselves to get out of our comfort zone a little bit and then allow that to surprise us. So when it comes to this InterPlay-- and I so appreciate my teacher \[INAUDIBLE\] because he's guided meditation is so much about how do you play with your breath. So even in a serious setting where I feel we can't really allow our body to do a lot of movement, but we can control our breath. And if we breathe in naturally, that feels good. It's wonderful. But otherwise, like, how do we adjust it to be longer, shorter, shallower, deeper, faster, slower, like play with all those different patterns and see which one allow ourselves to be more open to soften and to feel grounded? And I feel that might be-- which I enjoyed so much. I feel that's the most freedom my experience in my meditation, more than any other parts of my life. It's like play with this breath and breath energy that I feel in my body. So I feel it could be wonderful beginning steps and also lead a long way to how we allow ourselves to be more free when our body have to follow certain social aspects. I can't find another better word for it. Yeah. And, of course, that, I feel, will eventually allow our mind to be free from a lot of the social expectations or a lot of the fetters barring a Buddhist word that we unconsciously take in. Yeah. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Well, having the opportunity to have each of you here today, I wonder if-- also do a little conversation between each of you and these aspects of self-care and care for care workers and maybe just to start out as Buddhists and as Buddhist chaplains. I feel like this is a particular-- maybe-- area where Buddhists can have a lot to contribute and have been contributing. But can you think of your identity as a Buddhist and what aspects of this might-- besides what you've already shared. Also, what might also help to contribute to this field of chaplaincy as a whole or to care of care providers as a whole? SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: In terms of offering care and also sort of in response, I see one of the questions in the chat that says, could anyone address the issue of any feelings of difference in your sense of presence as Buddhist practitioners or clergy and your professional presence in service as chaplains? This is a very-- like that question, I appreciate that question. It's a very large part of what goes on within myself through a lot of the times that I go into rooms. For those of you who are unfamiliar, Loma Linda is the heart of the Seventh-Day Adventist tradition. And so this whole area has a very strong conservative Christian population. And that's reflected in our patient population as well. And not all of the interpretations of Christianity are welcoming of other traditions. And so going into rooms, there's always the question of like, who is going into this room, and will the relationship be able to be established? Or will our institutional allegiances immediately create disconnection which cannot be overcome? And yeah, I don't have a full answer to that because again just like the question on koans, it's something that I hold each day and try and see how it manifests. I've experienced with walking into the room and saying, hello, I'm a Buddhist chaplain, thinking that well, if it's going to be an issue, I want to let them know right away so that we can get the fighting over with immediately. And I've also tried, hello, I'm a chaplain. And they say, oh, what tradition are you from? Like, oh, well, I was raised in the Quaker tradition with my parents and hoping that they won't say like, OK, well, how about now? because trying is hard to avoid the situation. And I think that as my own practice deepens and as my own experience as a chaplain continues to season as time goes forward that people can sense authenticity and that when they feel that from me whether or not they ask that question, it ultimately doesn't matter. I've sort of noticed that when I've felt that feeling of connection with people that if they then choose to ask, oh, what tradition are you from? when I respond, it has never really been an issue. And so I think that the way-- at least, now-- that I uphold that sort of difference is that it's more or less of a nonissue. It's a nonissue when I go into the room. And if I'm doing my job well, then if they are curious, it becomes a nonissue at that point either. Most of the time the response is like, oh, that's interesting. But anyway, about my insert mental condition or relationship problem here because they feel that authenticity. And that sort of goes beyond any type of institutional affiliation. I'm not sure if that was the orientation for the question, but it's certainly something that I think about quite a bit. Thank you. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you, Shushin. I could also see that that we all wear different hats in different scenarios. And when we're within our Buddhist communities, we might be wearing a certain hat within that community versus when we're at our jobs as chaplains, which is in the more interreligious milieu, we might be wearing a different kind of hat. And those roles might have some overlap but also some distinctions. So I could also see it in that sense. I want to pivot just really quickly and ask. And this is a question for all of you. In addition to the ways that we can care for ourselves and for other caregivers who are part of the places where we work, what are some ways that you found helpful to use your own networks of care or communities of care in difficult moments? Who do you turn to when you need care, and how do you cultivate those networks and communities so that when you have that really rough visit with a patient or a student, you can walk out of there and you have someone to turn to to help you with your distress and secondary trauma? This is for anyone. I know, Acala, that's kind of part of your job as a mentor, but then who's your mentor? Who do you turn to? And the same for Shushin and for Alex. ACALA XIAOXI WANG: Yeah, thank you, Monica. I love the question. It's so important, so striking. I have a network of support from my mentor, Koshin Paley Ellison. That's my mentor and educator. And also a mentor team. It's a six-people team that we really like spending the time to be together every month to debrief about our feelings while we are taking care of our mentees. So it's so crucial for me. Like even when I think of the mentees and the people I know, it's like how rare there is that strong support team with we feel we can turn to when they're stressed. A lot of people don't even claim themselves have a close friend that they can talk to anytime. So it's really important. How do we step out of our fear and begin to make that connection like call a friend? We haven't called for years or like talk to some relatives. We haven't talked to for many months with a refresh like open mind? Like for me, what I learned through this years to come out of my own fear of making that connection and reconnection is to cultivate a mind of curiosity. Because it's so common for me to assume oh, maybe people don't have time, or maybe people can't really listen. Or maybe oh, this person-- like their story is like this. But their story was already-- that's what I experienced years ago. So like how do I encourage myself to have this curiosity of like what's here and now, what's new, what's possible that I didn't imagine and then using that to make this general connection of like really asking how are you? when I text someone or I'm making a phone call and allow whatever their lives to unfold in between us. So for me, that's an important step, I would say, helped me and helped so many people to begin to have this genuine-- I really like-- Shushin, you mentioned authenticity earlier in your comment. Like allow this authenticity here and now. Allow that. We don't assume what's from the past or in the future but really in this moment, how are you? So that's the chaplain quality we can bring into our lives even when we are not in our chaplain role or not in a caregiving role. So for me, this self-care always needs to be mutual so that when we are in relationship, it's not like, oh, I sacrificed my time to serve you or like, oh, then I need additional time to do self-care. So how can we bring this curiosity, this flowing of genuine emotion and connection happening in each moment when we have this precious opportunity to talk to anybody? For me, that's really the self-care without the self so much in it. It's just all-encompassing care and compassion helps me. And I would encourage you to cultivate this curiosity to see what else is possible. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you, Acala. Shushin, do you have anything you want to add \[INAUDIBLE\]? SHUSHIN RA PETERSON: Yeah, it's sort of interesting since-- that this question about how do we find our own sources of support? In the mindfulness series that I wrote about in the book, I actually found a very good friend among the psychologists and that has turned into probably the deepest and most supportive relationship that I've developed in at least the last 10 years or so. And finding somebody like that through the work has been just really wonderful, but it's been funny that since the program ended, we work at different sites now. And so the question has been like, what are we going to do to maintain that friendship? Because left really to sort of our own devices, like I never do anything if I can help it, and they never do anything if they can help it. And so we'll never speak to each other again. And so we had a very clear-cut conversation like, do we want this friendship to continue? And we're like we do, and we have specifically scheduled a 30-minute meeting every week or two that we like stick into our calendars where we both have to show up and there's that very intentional aspect on the outside, which doesn't look particularly like-- it doesn't look like you're like a TV friendship where you show up at the person's house and then like you bump into each other and you go out. It's like, no, we've decided that we're going to meet at this time for 30 minutes and sort of off of what Chaplain Acala was saying about authenticity. One thing which my own educator once said which also very much helped with pretty much everything is as we said, if all conditions are-- if all phenomenon are conditioned by our preconceptions and our desires, if I walk into a room or go into a relationship, assuming that there's going to be disconnection that I'm going to absolutely be able to find some reason that this isn't working. But the flip side of that is also if you walk in assuming connection, assuming that this person is going to be great, assuming that there is going to be something exciting and noteworthy and worthy of uplifting, then more often than not, you'll find that. And again, by holding that assumption of connection instead of assumption of disconnection will tend to bring about ways to then find access for people who are able to care for us and uplift us when we are hurting and when we need someone to call and things like that. So yeah. ALEX BASKIN: I'll jump in, if that's cool. What was I going to say? Yeah. Well, I-- OK, things, people, communities, people that support me, I'm really glad that I-- the hospital I work at, he have a as far as these things go in this area, a pretty large spiritual care department. So I'm one of 10 full-time staff chaplains plus our CPE students plus per diems and things. So I feel that I can really go to my colleagues for like, wow, I just saw the most intense thing just now and to have someone to talk it out with in the kind of immediate way and that yeah, Monica and I-- the Mapping Buddhist Chaplains Project we were on, a major theme-- the research that we did on Buddhist chaplains we found is that a lot of chaplains' experience, a lot of Buddhist chaplains' experience, minority isolation, the feeling they're the only Buddhist there or they're the only person who practices a minority religious tradition at all-- And I'm glad that-- firstly, my supervisor is also a Buddhist. And many of my colleagues, most of my colleagues, think expansively about religion and spirituality in ways that I can see myself in and connect with. And the other thing I just want to make a plug for that's been so true for me is that self-care practices need to be embodied. Like the tendency is so strong to like talk about it and to talk about the need for the practical and over the theoretical but still talking so much about it. And it's just the things that are the most supportive to me is that like I ride my bicycle from my home to the hospital every day. And there is movement built into my day. And I have an InterPlay group here in Cambridge that I go to twice a month, and I go dancing a lot. And I have started getting into rock climbing, indoor rock climbing gym in the last year or two since doing full-time chaplaincy work. And so sometimes when friends or someone reaches out to me to connect, I'm actually pretty peopled out from the work I do, and I don't necessarily want to sit and chat. But I'm like, come rock climbing with me. Let's hang, and we can talk a little but also be using and moving, using our bodies, moving, which isn't to say, figure out what this means for you. And I love my dharma practice, and I'm extroverted. I like talking to people too. But we cannot emphasize enough like the body, the body, the body. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you so much. So I really appreciate all of you today. We are at 7:30, so thank you for this. We've had some lovely comments come in just on the Q&A. Mark says that in these times of challenging social division, I feel like we're all patients and caregivers, and the comments and thoughts shared today position me to ease the suffering of those I encounter on a daily basis. Thank you for sharing these valuable tools. And then we had a lovely comment come in from \[? Haruna. ?\] This is, thank you all for the beautiful presentation. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in this world. Attending this series of webinars brought me new ideas and thoughts that never pop up in my mind when I face problems in crises. It definitely helps me in the future. Thank you so much. So I just want to echo the gratitude and let people know that we will be posting this video on to the Harvard Divinity School YouTube channel so you can share it with all your friends along with the first two videos and these. One of the reasons we wanted to do this webinar is that even if you can't make it to the live session at 6 o'clock, Eastern Time, on a Tuesday evening because you're working, you've got kids, you're peopled out, whatever it is, we wanted to do these as webinars so that they could be recorded and put up onto YouTube and so that people could turn to them whenever they had time and a need to know that no, \[? Haruna, ?\] Mark, you are definitely in the right spot. You are doing good work, and there's a whole community of people supporting the work that you're doing. So keep it up. So thank you so much, everyone. Nathan, thank you for bringing these wonderful authors together. I'm just going to finish this up here by taking a moment to dedicate the merit. So if you want to, please feel free to join me and help dedicate this merit to all suffering beings that they may be free from suffering, that they may find true happiness, joy, peace, equanimity, in these troubling times. May we all be happy and free from suffering. Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Sadhu, sadhu, sadhu. MONICA SANFORD: Thank you so much, everyone. Have a lovely evening. NATHAN JISHIN MICHON: Thank you. \[CHUCKLES\] SPEAKER 2: This video features the song "More Than Just a Dream" by spinningmerkaba, available under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial license. Sponsor, Buddhist Ministry Initiative at Harvard Divinity School. SPEAKER 1: Copyright 2024, the President and Fellows of Harvard College. See also:- [ Buddhist Ministry Initiative ](/topic-tags/buddhist-ministry-initiative)