# Video: On Being a Hindu Monastic: Personal Journeys June 24, 2024 ![Swami Sachidananda of the Arsha Vidya Gurukul speaking](/sites/g/files/omnuum5526/files/styles/hwp_16_9__480x270/public/hds2/files/untitled_600_x_400_px_26.png?itok=5qXvmjt9) This year, HDS is hosting two Hindu Swamis, Swami Chidekananda of the Ramakrishna Order, and Swami Sachidananda of the Arsha Vidya Gurukul. Both Swamis quickly became cherished members of our community, in the classroom, in community activities, and at religious services. During this event, participants heard the two swamis talk personally about their choice for monastic life, sharing with us insights into their personal journeys as swamis, and reflecting on what it means to be a monastic in the twenty first century. This event took place March 20, 2024. \[AUDIO LOGO\] SPEAKER 1: Harvard Divinity School. SPEAKER 2: On Being a Hindu Monastic, Personal Journeys. March 20, 2024. FRANCIS CLOONEY: Welcome to our gathering this evening. Please, there are plenty of seats left here in the front if anyone wants to move forward, also comfortable chairs along the side, so make yourself comfortable. And one of the rules of an event like this is if you get hungry while the lectures are being given, you can go back and get something or fill your cup with more chai or something of that. So be casual, be relaxed, and welcome to our event. So tonight we have this wonderful event, an opportunity to discuss with our two visiting swamis, who I'll introduce, On Being a Hindu Monastic, Personal Journeys. I am Professor Francis Clooney. I am a member of the faculty for about 20 years now. I've been here a long time and always look forward to these events. I think this is the third or fourth time we've had our monastics speaking about their journeys and how they came to be monastics. My own field includes study of traditional Hinduism and also like Hindu Christian interface, the back and forth between traditions. So I'm excited for this event tonight. So the general topic of personal journeys, you might say vocational journeys, I think, is a wonderful topic that cuts across different religious traditions. Finding one's way in life, finding out what one is to do, what makes most sense personally, spiritually for many people in terms of a call to be a certain kind of person shows up across religious traditions. In the biblical tradition, for instance, the call of Abraham. He was called by God to leave everything and follow. Or Samuel, the young man who God calls in the middle of the night and calls him to be a prophet. Those stories are very well known in Christian tradition. Jesus calling the apostles to follow him in the Gospels. The Prophet Muhammad minding his own business, being his own self, suddenly called to speak powerful sacred words in the name of the Lord. The Buddha, many a Buddhist Saint, finding the path, being called on vocational ways to leave everything and to join the community. And in the Hindu tradition, of course, there is no shortage of such stories. We have, for instance, Shankaracharya, whose name may come up tonight in some way, the great non-dualist theologian who had radical experiences in his youth that led him to realize all is one and that prevented him from living in the world in an ordinary way. Or in modern times, Ramana Maharshi, the great sage of Tiruvannamalai, who himself was transformed as a young man suddenly from ordinary life as a 15-year-old boy to a renunciant finding his way in the world. I could go on and on. Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita, the Tamil Saints, the Alvars and Nayanmars, Mirabai and Kadir, Ramakrishna, even Mahatma Gandhi, figures who are called to transformation of their lives. So this theme is a great theme and I think we're privileged tonight to have two living examples of hearing the call, going on a personal journey, and making a choice that most people don't make to be a monastic. And so I think this is an exciting event tonight. Our procedure will be our two swamis, who will introduce now, will speak. And then after they have spoken, then it'll be open for question and answer. And we can talk about this bringing in questions for them but also maybe other angles, people want to offer other experiences and so on about this gathering tonight and how we're doing this. Swamis, can I ask you to come up and take seats here? So I'll take the third seat if you take the first two. So I'm happy to introduce our first speaker. Neither speaker needs an introduction because so many of them already, but swami Sachidananda of the Arsha Vidya Gurukul will be our first speaker tonight. Swami Sachidananda is a disciple of Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswati Ji and Tatva Ananda Ji. Swami Ji is known for his simple, clear exposition of the vision of Vidanta, making him accessible to modern audiences. As we also know here, he has a good singing voice and he's renowned to be a very good cook as well. So keep that in mind. Swami Ji completed his graduation in management as a valedictorian from Christ University in Bangalore. A multifaceted, young, friendly sanyasi, Sachidananda was known for his singing of carnatic music, bhajans, and chants playing the veena. And that, of course, brings satsangs to life. It's a wonderful gift that he has. He is available to hold satsangs and classes at homes and has been very generous with his time this year while at Harvard. He is a very important figure in the Arsha Vidya Gurukul community. He has given many retreats in India at the Dayananda Ashram in Rishikesh, Arsha Vidya Gurukulam in Coimbatore, other places, particularly in Karnataka. He offers Vidanta classes, public lectures, retreats, social services, activities in Bangalore through the Arsha Vidya Kendra. He also teaches at the Saylorsburg Gurukulam in Pennsylvania. And he is head of the Sri Vasavi Peetam, which is a very large important organization based in Bangalore. So I think we'll be very interested to hear our first speaker tonight. Swami Ji, please come and share with us. \[APPLAUSE\] SWAMI SACHIDANANDA: Namaste and welcome. Namaste to one and all. Thank you Professor Clooney for the wonderful, very generous introduction. And I cherish the presence of one and all here. I would like to begin with a prayer, a chant. \[NON-ENGLISH CHANT\] May everyone be happy. May everyone be free of illness. May we see only what is auspicious. May no creature in this world have an ounce of sorrow. May there be peace, peace, and only peace. So I'm very happy to be in front of you all and then share my personal journey as a Hindu monastic. And before coming to that, I'm really, really happy to be part of the Harvard Divinity School community. I cherish every moment here. I've made wonderful friends, embraced this community, and they have embraced me. And that gives me immense joy. So I begin to trace some of my journey, how it started and what it means to me, what it means to me to be a Hindu monastic. So the Sanskrit word for monastic is sanyasi or monasticism is sannyasa. So it comes with-- the Sanskrit word means to give up, to give up well. So what it means to me to give up well, I used to think a lot as a novice or as a person who was studying in the college and during my undergrad degree. And then one fine day, I arrived saying that what it means to give up well is to give up all complications, whatever I see as complications in my world or in the world as I perceive it. So that led me to seek a spirituality. I was a full fledged student studying undergrad and then I used to be very, very involved in the college community, in the academics, used to have a great-- still have a great set of friends all around me. And yet, I used to come back home and each day, think that, OK, there must be something more for me. Why am I not satisfied, in spite of all of this? I seem to be doing well. I seem to have every privilege. I seem to have everything, yet I'm sort of unhappy personally. What is it? Why is it this way? That led me to pursue spirituality in a very intense manner during my undergrad years. And I almost wanted to quit my undergrad education. But my mom said, why don't you finish it then you do what you want? So that led me to finish it and then later on moved to ashram life. So I belong to Arsha Vidya gurukulam, Arsha Vidya tradition. Arsha means that which comes from rishis, the sages. Vidya is knowledge. Gurukulam is a place or a community or a family of the guru. So Arsha Vidya is the Vidya or the knowledge wisdom that is learned in the presence of the guru. And my guru is at the center of this, Swami Dayananda Saraswati Ji, Puja Swami Dayananda Saraswati Ji. I had the great privilege and fortune to study directly under him. And he is a very prominent person, figure in the advaita world. And he created a number of teachers of advaita vidanta, a number of sannyasis. It's an organization, an ashram. Together, we have close to 250 monastics, 250 sannyasis, which comprises of monks and nuns, swamis and swaminis, and a number of brahmacharis, novices, and a number of householders who are very essential part of the tradition who learn in the gurukulam, the Vidya, the knowledge of Upanishads Bhagavad Gita Brahma sutras, which constitute the quintessential texts of advaita philosophy and then share it with the world. So this is like a group picture comprising of almost many of our swamis and swaminis, monks and nuns of our tradition, which this was taken during the 80th birthday celebrations of my guru Swami Dayananda Saraswati Ji. I was seeking, not being very clear of what I am seeking, but I knew that I wanted something in spirituality. So I used to go to satsangs, ashrams, temples, wherever I thought there could be wisdom. And I was searching, searching, and searching. And one fine day, I came across a book by my guru Swami Dayanand Saraswati Ji. It's called Ishwara In One's Life, God In One's life, to just translate Ishwara. When I got hold of that copy, something resonated very closely in me and I decided I have to meet this person who has written this book. So I went in search of him to our ashram monastery in Coimbatore which is in the Southern part of India in a state called Tamil Nadu and met him. And the moment I met him, I knew that I have come to the right place and he is my guru and I'm here to study how my spiritual formations and just be. I did not know anything else more than that, but that's what I felt the moment I saw him. And I requested him that I'm here to be and then I would like to study. And then he was very discouraging of me. He was very careful. By then he had seen hundreds of youngsters and then who would have probably come to him. He was very discouraging at the first note. He said, OK, you can come to ashram whenever you want, but then go back, go back to your home and then do work or do whatever you want, be involved in the family business and then you keep attending retreats. But I was very adamant. No, I would like to come. I would like to be there. But then I decided I'm not getting any good responses from him the way I wanted. And then one particular day, my parents happened to accompany me to the ashram. And the moment they met him-- he met my parents, he was sure that this was not a runaway case. So he's here with the blessings of his parents, which is important to my teacher that you join the monastery with the approval of the parents. That was important to him. So that's how from that day onwards, he embraced me, he welcomed me to be part of the ashram and the long-term Vidanta study program which goes on in Arsha Vidya gurukulam. So for me, being a monastic is essentially to travel a path which is well traveled, a path which is well traveled by my guru and my senior sadhus sanyasis of our tradition and the entire tradition, not just particularly to our ashram. And then this journey in the year 2012 took me to the banks of the Ganga Rishikesh. So this is a view of Ganga in Rishikesh just outside our ashram monastery. So my initial formative spiritual years was in Arsha Vidya gurukulam Coimbatore. In the presence of my guru, I happened to find some old picture of pictures of me as a novice sitting at the feet of my guru, thanks to Apple Photos. Even if you want to forget something, it won't allow you to forget. \[LAUGHTER\] So for me, spirituality, I do not know anything else apart from being in the presence of my master, my teacher. His life was so impactful, it transformed me as a person. My guru Swami Dayanand Saraswati Ji used to call the whole time of being in the ashram as a maha therapy. Maha means great. As a great therapy. He used to be-- he was very, very aware of human psychology, the needs of a individual, a person, personal needs from all standpoints. For him, the entire time that we spent in the ashram is essentially what the students are doing, is submitting themselves to a therapy every single day, every single moment, and growing out of every psychological issue a human being is facing, a person, a student is facing. So for me, the gurukulam stay was one which was extremely joyful, extremely joyful and blessed also because I was-- I had the great privilege of directly serving, offering my services to my guru Swami Dayanand Saraswati Ji. So this setting is a everyday class or a satsang where he used to be in that position because he was already 80 plus in those years where he could not fold his feet, which is traditionally that he's followed for a very, very long time. Because of his dialysis and health reasons, he could not sit in the padmasana. So I used to be in his presence, listening to him intently whatever he had to teach all of us. So our gurukulam routine was extremely tight. I often hear my friends at Harvard Divinity School, they're so tired after just two hours of class. \[CHUCKLES\] They keep complaining. Then I make chai and coffee for them when they're tired. But then this was our routine. We used to be up and have shower before 5 AM. And 5 AM to 6:45 AM was our morning prayers at the temple. 7 AM meditation then breakfast. So our ashram had a lot of people from all across the world. We had my brothers and sisters from Portugal, Japan, the US, Canada, Brazil, everywhere. So are breakfast was a hearty mix of Indian and continental vegetarian food, which was very enjoyable. I gained a few pounds there as well. \[CHUCKLES\] And first spiritual session was at 8:30 AM where we used to intently study the Upanishad. So our tradition is based on the teachings of adi shankaracharya, the teachings of advaita, the vision of oneness. So we used to study Upanishad in the morning. Then we used to have a chanting class where we used to learn to chant Vedas, Bhagavad, Gita, shlokas, songs, chants and everything. Then we used to have chai. Then again 11:30, we have to run to another class Sanskrit. And then lunch, some rest, some savor time in the ashram. So we used to serve the gurukulam, the place we were in. We used to take care of the cows. We used to take care of the library. We used to take care of the guests who were coming in, some seva in the kitchen chopping vegetables and cleaning, taking care of the cleaning of the halls and paths, all of it. Then another session in the evening, 4:30, which was Bhagavad Gita, again, the study of Bhagavad Gita with the shankaracharya commentary. Then yoga and a walk. Then temple worship again at 6:30 PM, dinner at 8 to 9 PM, satsang, Q&A and some joyful times with bhajan singing and all of it. Then we used to talk, chit chat a bit and then go to sleep. So our ashram in Coimbatore in Southern part of India was sharing its borders with forest. So it's called anaikatti, a place of elephant crossing. So one of the excitements in the night used to be when elephants used to come inside the ashram and we used to have a fire alarm sorts siren. And then we all used to try to see the elephant from a safe distance. And elephants were so cute. They just come into the ashram. They don't trouble us. It's their place indeed. We are the occupiers there. They used to come and then give us Darshan. That means then divine sight. And then they used to go around sometimes, break a pipe, drink water, eat some fruits from the trees, and then go back. And then elephants learnt-- unfortunately, they were learning ill manners of us humans also. I once saw an elephant come into the ashram, came inside, ate a bag of rice, carried a parcel, they take away-- they took another bag of rice and moved out of the ashram and closed the gate also politely. \[CHUCKLING\] I think we rubbed on to some of our bad qualities into the elephants there. Then so that used to be a wonderful time at the ashram. So this is a photo of the temple that we used to have in the evening every day where we used to worship various deities, gods there. This is a group photo of all the people there next to my sister there with the purple shawl. I hope I identified the color properly. So we had friends, brothers and sisters from all over the world. So we had people from Taiwan, our friends from Argentina, Brazil, US, India, a lot of friends from Japan, and various places. This is a setting of a classroom. So all of us used to have our designated chairs because we wanted to have our books, everything in one place. So we used to have designated seats and then intently study the Sanskrit texts. So this is the setting. So we used to have all our brothers and sisters sit and listen to our teachers intently. And then the rules changed. I used to be a novice sitting and one of the chairs. And then by some time, I am sitting on the my guru's place, teaching the same texts. It's a beautiful continuity of the lineage and the pedagogy at the ashram. This is some of the pictures from our Arsha Vidya gurukulam Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania where I serve and teach. Yeah, so those are some of the pictures. So for me, my personal journey as a monastic, what it brought to me and what it means to me is a chosen lifestyle. My guru was very particular, everybody can reach enlightenment, God, or whatever they hold dear in their hearts. Sannyasa or monasticism is just a choice of lifestyle. There is nothing higher to this lifestyle compared to a layperson. He was very clear of it. In fact, he used to be always discouraging of people who wanted to move into monastic life. So I was very-- made very clear that it's a choice of lifestyle. And this lifestyle resonated a lot with me. A lifestyle in another Sanskrit word for sanyasi or a monk is parivrajaka parijata vasanthi, one who keeps moving from one place to another without ever getting attached to that place or anything for the good of oneself, for the good of the world. So I always try to imbibe that spirit, to keep moving, to keep moving towards self growth, and then try to be helpful, make people around me happy as a monastic. So that lifestyle resonated with me. And looking back, it was not a choice that I made. It just happened. When I joined the ashram, I did not decide or know that I am going to be a sanyasi, I'm going to be a monastic. It just happened in my case. And one more thing which resonated with the teachings with my guru is that parallelly, we had hundreds of social service nonprofit initiatives as part of our ashram, may it be education for the girls, education for the underprivileged boys, underprivileged girls. We run close to 100 free hostels back in India, a few hospitals. I used to cherish being part of all these projects through our-- another sister concern organization called AIM For Seva. So that's what resonated a lot to me and which made me join the ashram. And I feel this lifestyle allows me to embrace the whole world, which is to embrace the whole world is a very great value in Hindu theology, which is vasudhaiva kutumbakam, to try to embrace the whole world as one's own family. So every moment, I strive, I try, I try my best to embrace the whole world as my family. So sannyasa is also giving up of one's own family. I grew up in a very large extended family, but I-- in one way, I gave up that family. But then I gained a lot more. I gained the whole world, and which includes my previous family too. That world comprises of the previous family and the entire world. So this lifestyle helps me to emulate those values. And this lifestyle allows me to grow, allows me to constantly evolve, constantly to be my best and move forward in my path. So that's what made me to be a monk, I suppose. So that that's something very, very personal and dear to me. And one more value which is suggested for a sanyasi or a monk which resonated a lot for me and to embrace monastic life is it is said, to live like a honeybee. So you move into a place and then, without disturbing anyone or the flower, you extract the essence of that flower and then just move on, move on to another flower. And at the same time, you also help those flowers to-- those plants to multiply, to become more. So that is a value or a message given for a sanyasi to live such a lifestyle. Always be sensitive to the place around and never cause any disturbance, disruption. At the same time, add value, try and add value to wherever you are. And also what inspired me to embrace this lifestyle is my guru Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Swami Tatu Dayananda Saraswati under whom I was initiated as a monastic. They were great role models for me. They were great people who were selfless. They showed me through their lives that it is possible to be something more than your egoistic self. So initially when I used to read books, everything seemed to be conceptual. But then I could find those parallels in the lives of our monastic community in our swamis and swaminis. So that's what helped me to embrace this lifestyle. Another great thing that I saw in our tradition, in our ashram, which is in many of the Hindu ashrams, is that it is a place for everyone, irrespective of your sex, gender, caste, creed, religious affiliation, ethnicity, nationality. You are welcomed in this community. And not only just to be part-- in fact, the openness of the tradition where these people coming from diverse places from different areas take big positions in the monastic community. For example, we have a monastery in New Jersey. It is headed by a swami who was born and brought up here in the US and then he came to India to study Swami Taratmananda Ji. And then current Acharya of one of our-- Sanskrit Acharya of one of our gurukulams is my sister Metha Ji from Japan. She came and got expertise in Paninian Sanskrit grammar and she's a Sanskrit Acharya. And then one of our big monasteries and the teaching Institute in India, Ijisnakpur, which is headed by a swamini, a female monk, Swamini Bramha Praggnanan Ji. She heads and then monks, novices study under her and then get trained in their spiritual formations. So for me, being monk or embracing this lifestyle was not something radical at all. For me, it was very, very smooth, joyful way to be, a lifestyle where I could express myself to the best to grow. And I also was very fascinated by the color \[CHUCKLES\] which gains a lot of attention everywhere, even in Harvard campus. So whenever I'm in Harvard Yard, many of the undergrads and then other kids of Indian origin or of Hindu Indian American diaspora ask if I am Hindu chaplain of Harvard. \[LAUGHTER\] And then sometimes when I'm in Pennsylvania area, they ask am I going for hunting. \[LAUGHTER\] And then many years back, I also saw a TV show, Orange is the New Black. So for me orange is not any of this. It is the color of the flame or the lamp, which represents knowledge, wisdom. So through these clothes, these robes, what I intend, what I seek, what I aspire is always to seek wisdom, learn, learn constantly from people around me, from all traditions, all religions, all texts, all traditions, everything that I come in touch with. So that's been my personal monastic journey. And also, my ashram allowed me to grow. And also, as a very young student, I came into the ashram, I was one of the youngest novices. And I still am one of the youngest monks at the ashram, so I got a lot of love and attention from all the swamis and swaminis all the time. They're watching, looking at me and then helping me to grow constantly. That was something really, really helpful. So I kind of bring a modern perspective into the tradition. I'm constantly seeking to engage with the youngsters back in India, here in my work across United States. So I'm always looking to learn and also be helpful to the younger generation who are seeking this wisdom and want to engage with the tradition on their own terms. I get it. I understand it because I also see seem to belong to the same generation, more or less. So that is something that I actively do. And I try I try Sanskrit rap. \[CHUCKLES\] And then I move around in the scooter in Harvard campus to make a point-- \[CHUCKLES\] I suppose. I don't know. I just do what seems to resonate with me and what is within the bounds of the Dharma, never transgressing it. Always I am in the boundary of Dharma, yet engaging with the world. So my guru had made it very clear, as a monastic, you are never going to be out of the world. You are going to live in the same world. So traditionally, it's giving up of the world and you move into forest. So later on, tradition evolved. Tradition is not a frozen monolith entity. Tradition is constantly evolving. From many years, monastics are part of the society. They are not outside the society. They are completely dependent on the society. They are nurtured by the society and they try their best to nurture the society. So this was very clear. So you be your best in the world as a flower to spread the fragrance of wisdom, values, uphold the tradition in an ever changing, ever evolving world. So that's been my journey so far. And then do I have a couple of more minutes? So yeah, that's all. And just to put out some pictures from my time at Harvard Divinity School. So it's been a wonderful time. I cannot imagine that I came here in September and it's already March, yeah. And then I finish this fellowship in a month or two. And then I gained a wonderful new family and tens of friends and tens of Instagram pictures. And we formed this HDS Ganga student organization to engage with Hinduism. And we did many celebrations of Diwali then devotional music night and then the latest being today's noon service. So that's something I enjoyed. I enjoy cooking for my friends, sharing food, smiles, laughter, going to Memorial Church on Sundays or special occasions, and just all the events around campus. It's been a beautiful time here that I'm going to be cherishing and meeting all my friends constantly. I'll schedule special Dharma talks in Boston so that I have an excuse to come and meet my friends, yeah. \[CHUCKLES\] So that's my journey. Very happy to share all of that with you all today. Thank you. Namaste. \[APPLAUSE\] FRANCIS CLOONEY: Thank you Swami Ji for such a wonderful presentation. I'm sure everyone has many comments and questions for swami about his vivid account and happy account. And I was delighted to hear that the undergrads in Harvard Yard think you're the Hindu chaplain. Maybe we can keep both of you here as Hindu chaplains and not let you go back to your jobs. So it's been wonderful. But now we have our second speaker Swami Chidekananda of the Ramakrishna order. Swami Ji is a monk of the Ramakrishna order, joined the order in 2004, and took his renunciant sannyasa vows in 2014. For most of his time since then, nine years at least, he has been in communications or publishing. He has been production editor of the spiritual monthly Prabuddha Bharata Advaita Ashrama in Kolkata of the Ramakrishna Math. And any of you familiar with the literature know that Prabuddha Bharata is one of these venerable, very important journals that goes back over 100 years and has a long history. And to be so involved in that is a great task and great honor. Swami Ji was born in America, first generation Indian family in Los Angeles, I believe, became a lawyer at certain point, knows Kamala Harris. So if you need any favors from the vice president, talk to Swami Ji later. But as you have written, grew up facing conflicts. What does it mean to be a Hindu and an Indian in the American culture? Struggling with this certain sense of alienation, as you put it, all of that began to fade when you came across the life and teachings of Swami Vivekananda. His appearance, as you wrote it, his life, his message gave you the strength and pride and conviction for your own culture, religion, and family. And you pick out in particular his lecture The Women of India that greatly helped you to understand your own mother's and grandmother's greatness, the foundation of your spiritual life today, which I'm sure we'll hear more about. So Swami has spent a lot of time in Kolkata working with The Journal but also in media communication studies. A YouTube series Conversations With Authors interviews constructive challenging conversations with monks, younger scholars, older scholars about their work and a very inventive interactive format for spreading the word and communicating with a wider audience. And while being in the publishing business, has nonetheless had time for travel in India, visited many holy sites, including Mount Kailash in Tibet, Ammanath Varanasi, Vrindavan, and many other holy places. All of that has been part of Swami's personal transformation and growth, bringing an experiential dimension to his arduous studies of Vidanta and yoga. So we now welcome Swami Chidekananda and look forward to hearing from you. Thank you. \[APPLAUSE\] SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: Thank you, Professor Clooney for that wonderful introduction. And first, I'll just say this is Sri Ramakrishna. He's the monk of Ramakrishna. He's the extra the great 19th century mystic and Godman and he's our-- I belong to the Ramakrishna Mountain Mission. And it's in his name that our organization was started by Swami Vivekananda. So Ramakrishna is Bengali, so he had one saying in Bengali \[BENGALI\] As long I live, so long I learn. Now he meant that in a spiritual way because he lived in a dakshineswar in Kolkata and he was a glutton for spiritual experiences. Professor Clooney has written about him in our magazine and knows a lot about him. You can ask him as well he had every type of-- between 1855 and 1864, he had every type of experience in advaita Vidanta, non-dualist, that experience of monism, oneness. The experience of God in a dual capacity, qualified non-dualism, the idea of seeing God in everyone and everything. So his concept is that religion is something that has to be experienced. Even after that, he made this \[BENGALI\] as long I live, so long I learn. In 1866, a Islamic guru Govinda Roy came to him and he, under his tutelage, practiced Islamic sadhana. In 1871, another devotee came. He wanted to learn about Christ. How do the Christians pray? Not just as a-- you know, there's something in our order. We talk about not only depth. Two things are necessary, depth as well as breadth. So sometimes I see that if we have breath, we love all religions but we don't know our own tradition. That causes superficiality. On the other hand, if we have depth in our own tradition but we don't know about other religions, that becomes fanaticism. So this is what Swami Vivekananda, his disciple really talked about, combining depth with breadth in religious and spiritual practices. So I just wanted to say that under that as long I live, so long I learn. So so many of you here I've learned so much from. And thank you so much. And I think every Friday, because it's so busy, for me, the classes are so consuming, so I try to schedule an appointment with one person every Friday at, like, 2 o'clock. So I might want to ask one of you and I just want to hear your stories. And thank you, Professor Clooney. It's ironic that he's asking us to tell our story. I'm in the yoga sutras class with Professor Clooney. So this yoga sutra-- we're doing the first sutra of the second chapter \[NON-ENGLISH\] So that means that the svadhyaya, we usually interpret that as repetition of the mantra or self-study. One other commentator said it's the study of one's own mind. So I thank you for this opportunity to study my own story. I'm going to talk more about my personal journey rather than-- and afterwards, we'll take questions on my tradition as well. So it starts with my parents, my father and mother. So my father is-- so he came to the United States from India. He was born in a small village in Kolkata in West Bengal. And he was a-- now he's retired. He was a Professor of UCLA for, like, the last 45 years. He's a distinguished professor of microbiology and a virologist. So it was kind of cool as we were growing up because he was very famous. So whenever a flu epidemic would take place, we would see him on TV. Wow, that's my dad. Wow, that's cool. You know? And next to him is my mother. So one thing, I have only one other brother. He's also a monk and he actually came right before me, Swami Hari Ramananda Ji. So I think as Professor Clooney and Swami Ji would say that for every monastic, their mother plays an important role. So for me, my mother she's a housewife. And I think maybe not even before I was born, maybe her whole entire life, her routine was waking up at 3 AM in the morning, meditating, puja, cooking, taking care of the duties until like 3 AM in the morning till 9 PM at night, the same routine. And one thing I can say about her, I finally met a person that willed the-- she has sometimes health problems, high blood pressure, arthritis. But you could literally see how the will is stronger than the body. Actually, there was one other picture. It's not here but it's of our temple room. And so it's she does puja every day, so it shows all the different pictures, so many different gods and goddesses of all traditions. But when people come to our house, whatever room you go to, you think that's the temple room. There's no pictures of me or my brother or-- and I know there are some pictures of me before. So sometimes I ask, like, what happened to my pictures? And he says that the real-- who are you? So that's type of tradition that they have and that's the type of house we grew up in. So you can see it's like, growing up in America and that type of a house, that's like the old India, not even-- because I look at my friends and my cousins in India. They don't even have that type of house. \[CHUCKLES\] Now, but that could also create some conflicts, right? You're growing up. You have this very strong spiritual tradition. You have these very strong Indian parents. And so that-- because we like playing baseball, we like playing football, we like the Dallas Cowboys, all these things. And our friends at school, so they would be-- how do you share this world with them? It took time to understand that. And so there were sometimes conflicts. And I also think that at that time, India sometimes used to be mocked in the media, so that created a lot of hurt as well. And sometimes I would go and I'd feel sad. I didn't know what to do with that. It was starting to cause some self alienation from my own culture. So that's when at-- oh, then what happened, my mom started inviting swamis to come to our home. So every month, monks would come to our home. And I was just a young child. So they would be dressed like mirrors Swami Ji. And even though I was just like seven or eight years old, I was really image conscious. Oh, my god, you know, these monks are coming. OK, hurry up and come. What will my friends think, you know? So that was going on for some time. And I wanted somebody from my own culture to look up to, somebody that could really say because, like, all the movie stars, everything is here, it's always of a different race. That's when I came across Swami Vivekananda. He's the founder of our monastery. And the first thing he did-- one of the conflicts I had with my parents is that they would place great emphasis on studies, always pressurizing that good grades means a good university means a good life. They put really that strong emphasis and I was not really enjoying that. Then I first came across Swami Vivekananda and he said-- one of the first quotes, he said, you will be nearer to heaven through study of-- no, through playing football than through study of the Gita. And I said, wow, I found my swami now, you know? \[LAUGHTER\] Wow, this is great. This is what I really wanted. Yeah, it just will be closer to heaven-- closer to heaven through playing football than through study of the Gita, yeah. The other thing he did is that he emphasized this idea of strength. Strength is the only remedy for the illnesses of life. And where is that strength? It's in the realization of the atman. \[NON-ENGLISH\] So even though I was a young child, that really resonated with me. So another thing he did regarding education, learning that-- yes, we were getting good grades, these things, but what Swami Vivekananda talked about was this conceptual knowledge in the head needs to be master-sized, converted into spiritual convictions of the mind, feelings of the heart, and converted into service through the hands. Service of what? The divinity in all. This is what knowledge should lead to, head, hand, and heart, and the balance of all three. OK, now for purpose of time, we're going to fast forward to law school. So I was the first Indian-American male to be hired. I went to law school and I passed the California bar exam. And I applied. And what was I doing? I wanted to-- people ask, why did you want to be a lawyer? And actually, sometimes people ask me here, Swami Ji, why don't you write a book, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari? So I reply that I drove an Acura Integra, so that's not going to work at the time. In law school, I loved this idea of intellectual stimulation. So I loved the idea of going into a courtroom. How many of you have seen that movie A Few Good Men? OK. I also wanted to have my Tom Cruise moment, you know, can't handle the truth. And I did have that moment. I was practicing at the California District Attorney's Office and Kamala Harris, she was on her way up, I was new. But I thought, OK, well, she's half Indian. I'm Indian. So I wanted to meet her and introduce myself. And so she gave me some advice. She said that memorize the codes, the criminal codes. Don't say driving under the influence. Give the exact code number. So anyways, one of the things with that is that becoming a monk for me is going through the experience, not avoiding life. So like Swami Ji was saying that a monk actually either in this life or previous life, they've gone through life. They've enjoyed this-- they've enjoyed the suffering and the happiness of life. They used to say about Swami Vivekananda he was like a king in his past lives. That's what we think about monks, they were like kings in their past lives. So in this life, they've come to the end of that enjoyment. And now their goal is one tract, to realize God and God alone. So like I said, I did I did a DUI jury trial case. And that I did my cross-examination of this expert witness and I had that moment. I was in that rhythm and I felt like-- in fact, afterwards, I did not get a full conviction. It was 12 to 1. It was a hung jury because they said that you were too aggressive with the witness. So I didn't realize that the movie-- is what you see in the movies sometimes doesn't translate into real life. That was like-- but at the same time that-- I talked about I want to be a prosecutor, but I realized I did not have that prosecutorial mindset to want to put everyone behind bars, which you really need to be a good prosecutor. And why that matters is sometimes you don't have the facts on your side. It's not always that you have-- if you don't have the facts on your side-- I was prosecuting one case of a theft. Someone went into a place and stole some stuff. And as I was trying to prosecute the case, I suddenly felt sympathy for him. And I said, oh, my god. \[CHUCKLES\] Another thing I do, and I do this with some of you as well, I ask you to tell me your life story. I have lots of mentors in life. So I found a senior prosecutor there at the District Attorney's Office. And he had worked there for a couple of decades. And I said, please tell me your life story and what gives you joy from being a prosecutor. And he talked about this murder trial that he did. And it gave me nightmares afterwards, oh, my god. I had to put it out of my mind. I said, whoa. \[CHUCKLES\] I was actually living down below is the San Francisco Old Temple, the first Hindu temple in America. It was built in the early 20th century. So I was actually living there while I was working at the DA's office. It belongs to our Vidanta Society of Northern California. Now, after that experience asking, like, why did you become a prosecutor? I asked one of my spiritual teachers Swami Prabhupada Ramji in San Francisco, why did you become a monk? He was a monk at that time for, like, 60 years. And I'll never forget this beatific look he gave. He said that-- I asked him, what did you gain? And he said that God realization, I don't know, but this much I know, I've given my all to God. And that was the way he said that. And then he said that and then that smile, you know? So it really-- wow. Actually, my guru Swami Sahan Ji, I'll talk about him a little bit later on, but the next-- in a couple of weeks then, I went to a retreat. I used to go to retreats. And maybe, like, in some of our classes, I was known as the questionnaire. So I used to ask questions after questions. In fact, the swami would be there. If I wasn't there, they would like stop the class sometimes, waiting for me to come. So then one day he was giving a-- repeating one slokam from the Vivekachudamani. It was Sutra 3. And it just basically says that, who's ready for monastic life? A person who has had mumukshu twam, yearning for liberation. Mumukshu twam, being born in a human body and the company of great souls. So then he said that-- he just started speaking freely. He said you've had a good education. You've had good parents. You've made money. You've had everything in life. If not now, then when? And when he said that, he looked really sweetly right at me. And I didn't plan this. I thought, OK, if nothing, I'm not going to become a monk because I don't want-- because my brother already joined and I'm the only one left. But at that time, I knew it was over, that my life was-- I would leave my attorneys, everything. I was done. This life was done. The bridge had been burnt and there was no looking back. Then I joined our monastery in India, Belmont. You can see, this is very beautiful. Our main temple is right here and it overlooks the Ganga. And we have various temples there. We have probably the largest monastic order in the entire world, Hindu monastic order. We have 2,000 monks. And I'll just tell you, we're a little bit strict. Actually, you have to be between the ages of 18 to 28 in India, otherwise, 30 if you have an engineering or medical degree. They required you to have a bachelor's degree to join. And one thing is that we're not really a traditional-- we are a traditional. We are same lineage as Swami Ji, as he talked about, Adi Shankaracharya. But at the same time, there's this combination, Swami Vivekananda talked about it. He started a new type of monasticism at the end of the 19th century. With the problems that India was having at that time, so much starvation, so much poverty, so much darkness, he thought it's-- for sadhus to go and just sit in a cave and meditate for their own welfare is madness. So he wanted to bring the sadhus out into the community. He really felt because sadhus practices-- these monks practices brahmacarya, so one monk could do, he felt, the work of 100 people, 100 regular people. That type of degas, that type of energy would be there. So he made a new thing this \[NON-ENGLISH\] For one's own liberation and for the welfare of the world. This became our spiritual practice. Another way to put it is \[NON-ENGLISH\] Realizing oneself as shiva. Serving that living god in others. So we run hospitals, educational institutions, orphanages, what not. In fact, you can say that what Swami Vivekanand has started has influenced all Hindu monastic monasteries since then. Even the shankaracharya, sringeri shankaracharya, they came to our Ramakrishna order and they asked, can we start service activities? So normally, we have that some of our sadhus here will be sitting as acharyas, teachers. But sometimes, like my first encounter, I saw a monk. He's, like, running the entire hospital. So that there's no difference, this idea between work and worship. Everything, the sacredness-- what was it? Sister Nivedita said this, that the importance of Swami Vivekananda's ideas which are to be realized is, from this day forward, the distinction between secular and sacred has been forever eradicated. To labor is to pray. To be in the world, to serving this God and living man is part of my spiritual practice. So this is our ramachaya class, training center class. Ours is a two-year class. But at the same time, we have to wait between 9 and 11 years before we get our final robes. It's five years till we get the white. This is different. Sometimes in India you can get this the next day. But for us, it's a kind of a strict type of thing. And these are our charges there as well. Now for me, it's really important to have mentors in life. All through my life, mentors have been important. And so in the middle here is Swami Swahananda Ji. He was my spiritual guru. He gave me a mantra diksha. And I served him for 3 and 1/2 years. And I have to admit, that was very challenging. I came from a law background, so you know, you're feeling good. You're feeling like masters of the universe. You know? You're feeling your mind is very sharp. But serving the guru, serving a holy man-- and I think Swami Ji could-- it's not so easy because what are they doing? We talked about this in our yoga sutra class, there's something called kleshas and I think it's there in Buddhism as well, these pain bodies that have come lifetime over lifetime. Guru literally means in Sanskrit, the remover of darkness. So what he did is, I got I was serving him. I got many scoldings. It was sometimes tough to get a scolding, you know? But the next day, I felt like something-- what they're doing is they're seeing those hidden pain bodies, you can say. And like a surgeon, they're removing them. They have the subtle sight to see that and to remove it. So this type of intense training I had with my guru for 3 and 1/2 years. Again, for me, not only study of the scriptures, but I need to see people who have realized it. I need to be in their company and I need to make it my own. On the left-hand side, Swami Ranganathananda Ji, he was, I think, the 13th president of our order. When I first joined-- let's just go back. When I first joined, I actually did first-- I joined, I was a PBTC brahmachari, Preparation Training Center Brahmachari. You have, like, 500 brothers. Swami Ji was talking about an extended-- in India, especially, it's like everybody's your elder brother, right, when you first join. So you have, like, 500 pairs of eyes watching you on the monastery. So it's really tough for your ego. To first join in Belmont, of all places, it's really, really tough. It's tough for your ego. It's like, wow. And we're waking up at 3:30 every day. We're going to sleep at 11 o'clock at night. And they're watching, are you falling asleep or how are you doing? It's a tight routine. So Swami Ranganathananda Ji, near the end of his life, I met him. And when I met him, as he-- I felt was that he is great and I'm equally great. This is what the idea of the atman does. When you meet a great person, you sometimes feel kind of small, right? OK, he's this and I'm that. But when you meet a spiritually great person, a person who has realized their self, that sense of not contraction but expansion comes. And finally, this is Swami Suhithananda Ji. I think I had, like, over 50 conversations with him in Belmont. And what he does is he taught how to think. In Vidanta, we talk about this \[NON-ENGLISH\] discrimination between the real and the unreal. If you look even at Harvard, in every school, every discipline, there's a way to think. There's a way to approach. As a lawyer, I was taught to look at the world as a certain way. That's still a part of me. When I go to your class-- I go through a lawyer's mind. \[CHUCKLES\] So he taught though how to make that into a spiritual mind, how to use that, give it an upward twist. Finally, as Professor Clooney said, during the last 10 years, what I've done is I've been writing about this a lot. I've written lots of articles. And hopefully, by the end of this year, I want to make this into a book, the pilgrimage mindset. So in India, I've approached almost-- India, Nepal, and Tibet, I've approached almost every holy place of pilgrimage. Why? Because it's one thing to have what we talked about, this conceptual knowledge. How do you make that into living spiritual knowledge? How do you do that? I found that pilgrimages were really helpful. And I wrote about it that there's this-- how to approach a place of pilgrimage. Three types of mindsets. First, the pre-pilgrimage mindset. Before you go, what to do? So we normally don't do that. We normally just go and we look for a tour guide. Tell me what this is about. But actually what we should do, read about the place ahead of time. What happened there historically, spiritually? What are the spiritual experiences there? Then meditate upon that. Meditate upon it. Meditate, meditate, meditate. Then when you actually go to that place of pilgrimage, you're not going there as a tourist. You're going there as a pilgrim, a sadaqah, a spiritual practitioner. Otherwise, there will be so many distractions in places of pilgrimage, right? Then when you return from that place of pilgrimage, that's what we call the post pilgrimage mindset. That's actually where the pilgrimage actually starts to begin. And there you cultivate your experiences, what you went through. They're not just these past, dead memories. If you keep cultivating, you can make them living-- you could make them living embodying beings. These deities can come to life. The ideas can come to life. The places can come to life. And they can become your permanent companions. So I just gave, like-- this a place-- I'm just giving different traditions, different religious traditions which I visited in India. So this is Shravanabelagola. It's in Karnataka. And this is Bahubali here. The story behind it is that there is some struggle for the kingdom and he was a-- he and his elder brother-- Bahubali was a very tall, masculine person. And his elder brother was shorter and more egoistic. So they were engaging in different types of competitions. Finally, what happened is that Bahubali-- they engaged in wrestling. The younger brother, he lifted his elder brother above of his arms. He was about to throw him to the ground then he thought, what am I doing? For the sake of this land, I'm engaging in this type of action? He gently set his brother down and he stood in one spot and he said, I shall not leave this spot till I attain nirvana. So he was continuing the spiritual practice for years after years. But then you see how difficult nirvana is. You have to eradicate the slightest ego. The thought came to him, where I'm standing right now doing the spiritual practice, this land does not belong to me. It belongs to my brother. That slight obstacle obstructed his spiritual practice. How much time is left? Thank you. So at that time, his brother came to him and said, Bahubali, this land below you neither belongs to you nor to me. Many kings have come in the past and many kings will continue to go. That freed his mind from that last vestige of desire and he attained liberation. You see how helpful-- if you knew that beforehand and you go this place, what a difference that makes, right? Same thing Bodh Gaya, the Bodhi tree, which I think many of you know. When I went there, I was just thinking, wow, so Buddha sat here. And reimagining that conflict with Mara and Buddha sitting underneath there, it was like this great Mahabharata at that time. Third, this is Mount Kailash. This is very sacred to Jains, Buddhists, and Hindus. And I think this was like the crowning achievement for me. It was 22,500 feet high. I finished the parikrama and I did something there called churun sparsha. I think the day I went, about 1,000 people went, but only five of us did this churun sparsha, which means going and touching the feet of Mount Kailash. I studied ahead of time, so I read about it. And I can't tell. Later on, if anybody is interested, I'll tell the experience. I can't tell you, but it was a very wonderful experience. Last one, this is Ammanath Shiva Linga. And I went there, again, because I read about the place, I studied it. So normally, people just have one glimpse then they go. But I stayed there for three days, two nights and three days. I think someone from our orders told me, Swami Ji, this is the record for a Ramakrishna monk, two nights and three days in Ammanath. And one final thing then we'll finish. Why I mentioned these different religious traditions and why I propose this here today is this might be a way in the future, how to bring religious traditions together. Let me conclude by mentioning Ramakrishna, who I mentioned in the beginning. In his name, our monastic organization has started. So as I mentioned, after having every spiritual experience in Hinduism, he then studied in-- he studied Islam. And under the tutelage of his Govinda Rai, he had some Islamic experience. I did some research when I was in Kolkata. This old mosque right here, today it's right here down below. One day, Ramakrishna was coming in a horse carriage and in front of this mosque he saw a Muslim fakir just weeping, weeping for God. So Ramakrishna got down from his horse carriage. He came and he embraced the person, a long embrace. Both were weeping. Second thing is this. It's called the Holy Trinity Church in Amherst Street in Kolkata. Ramakrishna had a strong desire, even after all these realizations. He wanted to know how Christians pray in a church, but he was afraid to enter inside the church because he thought maybe the Orthodox Brahmins won't allow him to go back to the Kali temple. So he did not enter inside. He looked from outside. But I actually came here on Easter day and I found out-- I spoke to the priest there-- many Hindu devotees-- because Ramakrishna went there, that association many went there. They sat there for meditation. I even went there and sat there for meditation. So I just want to conclude with this. In our Belmont Monastery, on Buddha Jayanti Day, we do a wonderful celebration of Buddha. We celebrate that in all spectacular fashion. On Christmas Day, we do the worship of Christ. It's a beautiful worship. You have a 500 monks, 1,000 devotees just all there worshipping Christ. And why we say this is that if you love God, again, if you have that, if you truly love one form of God, then it does not contract. It does not make you hate others. Rather, what it does is it expands. Thank you so much. \[APPLAUSE\] FRANCIS CLOONEY: Thank you, Swami. Wonderful presentation, both your personal life and the larger scene of inter-religious India. Swami mentioning that he was a lawyer and was a tough prosecutor explains my experience in the classroom. \[LAUGHTER\] Swami will ask a question and I'll follow up with another question and another question and another question until I give the answer that he's looking for. \[LAUGHTER\] So keep very good work. I have lots of questions but I think I'd like to just open. We have maybe 20 minutes before we end the formal session. And the floor is open if anyone would like to raise their hand and ask the first question. And then you can direct it to one swami or the other or to both of them and we can go from there. So who would like to go first? AUDIENCE: One thing I've noticed is for me, being at HDS this year, I've learned so much from spending time with both of you and I feel so incredibly grateful just for being in your company. And one of the things that I'm most grateful for is that, despite all that you're giving to everyone in the community, anytime I ask you a question and look for guidance, you're so generous in the way that you give to me and to others of your wisdom and your knowledge. So I just want to lift that up and appreciate that. And I want to ask you a question that follows up on something that-- a thread that I heard from both of you. Being in a divinity school, it brings me such joy to hear you talk about your love of God. And it seems ironic sometimes that in an academic space in which we're studying religion, we sometimes can be afraid to say that out loud. And I'm wondering, especially given the turbulent times that we're in the world right now, if you have any wisdom for us, for me personally, for us as a community, how do we keep our eyes on what really matters, on the divine, despite what's happening in the world politically, materially, relationally? How do we do that and how can you speak to that with the wisdom that you've been given in your study? Thank you. SWAMI SACHIDANANDA: Thank you. Thank you, Mary Alice. I would share how I approach. Of course, we cannot deny what is going around us. World is a complex place. We do acknowledge everything that goes around us and we raise our voice or be part of the moments where you feel-- where one feels one needs to raise their voice. And in this whole process, how I approach personally is that never losing the context, I always imagine myself to be opening, like, a Google Maps. It shows the whole world sometimes and then locates you to where you are. So I approach the world from this point of view. Of course, we are part of a larger narrative. At the same time you are also situated in a particular context. And then I see what one can do for this larger discourse. And it need not be what everyone is doing all the time. You could do it in your capacity. You could be a shoulder for others to lean on. You could be prayerful. One could be somebody who brings a neutral perspective in a polarized world. So what one can do uniquely in relation to a larger narrative, of course, looking at it from one's own situation. So that's how I approach and I hope it's helpful. SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: Yeah, yeah, I always approach it from subjective objective. No matter what type of a what's going on outside, at first, we have to kind of be a safe space for ourselves and we have to keep up with our practice. Otherwise, if we don't engage in the world with a balanced mind, if we don't have a balanced mind to begin with, I think we just add more chaos to the world. In the Gita, we talk about buti yoga. So somehow, bringing that contemplation, making sure that we're first OK. Another thing is-- I tell this to my friends too-- that self care is also very important, taking care of ourselves too, you know, physically, mentally, exercise, yoga, eating well. I sometimes see many of our classmates, like, the diet is not very good, you know? We have to have a conversation about that actually. \[CHUCKLES\] We should have some oatmeal cafe or something like that. I really feel like that. And I think that is a holistic approach. And I think I've mentioned this to, I think, Rucha. She's sitting there. These are nice to have these kind of get-togethers. But I had this idea and I'm also ready for it. I call it hard questions in warm places because we all have such polarizing views now. Those just don't get mixed. I think that's just superficial to say that, OK, let's just-- no, there's some hard questions. And I think that with samosas, chai, and even some things I've learned in Buddhism, this insight dialogue, before a conversation, you first practice breathing, meditation. We did this at the peace house. The bell rings, you speak, I listen. Then I speak, you listen. It becomes very something very powerful. I think it has to start one on one. That's what I feel, different people of different faiths and different traditions. Thank you. FRANCIS CLOONEY: Great, thank you. So thank you Yun Chen for passing the mic that's a great idea. Who would like another question? OK. AUDIENCE: OK, my question is addressed to both of you. I would like to ask, today, we have a very controversial government in India. And the thing about following the Hindu oath against the concept of India, being home to pluralistic religions, I would like to ask what are both your orders doing in order to do something about it? Because peace in the religion-- because what I've understood from both of you is that you have an understanding of God and your love for humanity. My question is, like, what are your orders doing for that? And then I'll ask-- also have another question that, what do you think is the difference between this life after choosing the order and the other life that you left behind? So do you think you have that kind of contentment today which was missing in the previous life? Thank you. SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: I think I'll start with the second question first. You talk about safe questions, safe space, right? AUDIENCE: You were a lawyer too. SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: So right, that's right, I was a lawyer. But I think that's why I left the law as well, you know? \[CHUCKLES\] I didn't have that other aspect. I loved logic but didn't love that manipulation. I didn't really have that within me. So the second question is that what you've gained. So I'd say that-- what you've gained? What contentment you've gained? Yeah, so I think Holy Mother, she's the divine mother for us in our order. She said one thing is that if you become a monk, you can sleep peacefully at night. \[CHUCKLES\] So some things that we don't have, these-- not in a bad way, but these extra things we don't have to worry about, the ways of the world, right? It's very draining, right? To live in the world, to earn a living. I know. I was working for a couple of years, so I know that anxiety to make a living, support a family, to raise a family. So one thing is that energy that would get expended in so many ways, we try to concentrate that energy and put it with one focus towards God and towards the service of others, God and others. So Swami Vivekanand said in contemplation, in karma yoga, in action, in theory or devotion, in meditation, these four different ways we try to do that. So I feel that type of contentment we get. Now secondly, regarding your first question, first of all, let me say that in our Ramakrishna Math and Mission, we don't affiliate with politics. That's first to be clear about that. Secondly, that see, we have a hospitals in Bangladesh, we have hospitals in Kashmir, heavily Muslim-populated places. Again, what I've seen are sadhus. Who are we serving there? We're not serving a Muslim. We're not serving a Hindu. We're serving God. That's our real practice. \[BENGALI\] in Bangladesh, all these places. So that type of-- you understand what I'm saying? The idea of religion, these differences, going towards that unity. And regarding the present government, I think that's a conversation for another time. And I'll be happy to have that with you probably. I think that one thing I'd like to say regarding that, we have to have balance. Everyone now I see takes a polarizing position. It's this way or that way. But I feel that what we have to do is there's two-- one thing I learned as a lawyer, there's two sides to everything. I once did one divorce case. oh, my god, that's why I never got married, actually. \[LAUGHTER\] Wow, that was really, you know-- that was so educational. And so the wife thought the husband was 100% wrong. No way. And the husband thought the wife was 100% wrong. So what I learned, we have something in law called comparative negligence, you know, 50/50. And usually, what we find is things are more 50/50 than we like to think. Thank you for the question. SWAMI SACHIDANANDA: Thank you for the question. Our organizations ashrams are apolitical, so we do not associate with any particular political view. In that way, we are non-political. That does that seem that-- does that mean we are non engaging with the society? No, we are very much engaged with the world around us, society in all our seva projects. Like I mentioned, we may not be part of the larger political discourse which goes on, but then irrespective of what party is in the current government, our work continues to go, whether it is our schools, whether our hospitals, whether our hostels, whether our ashrams, or any other institutions that we do for the society just goes on, irrespective of the political discourse. That is one. And then I approach-- because I also think of myself as a world citizen, of course, situated very much in India. There are governments-- as a monk, how I see is there are governments and it is what it is. And then that's why we-- in India, we have the term NGO, Non-Governmental Organization. We try to fill up the gaps that governments aren't able to do in their capacity. So may it be all our seva projects or the non-profit seva projects that we do. That is for the first question. And the second question in all my satsangs are in the ashram context, when this question is posed to me that, am I content in my current life? And I joke around and say, can't you see that in my smile? \[CHUCKLES\] Yes, to give a straight answer, yes, I am absolutely contented every moment in what I do in just being myself, yes. Thank you. FRANCIS CLOONEY: Thank you. We probably have time for two more questions and only one question each person. So Rajiv. AUDIENCE: Come out of the caves and do the service to the people to change India, right? So when you sadhus mix up or when you are part of the society, what is that you do every day to have the balance, restore the balance, not being distracted or pulled over by these noises around? And what do you suggest for a common man like me to keep the balance day in and day out? SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: Right. Thank you for that question. I say that it's amazing when I look at our sadhus in India, our Ramakrishna sadhus, like in Kolkata, we have this Shiva Pratishthan Hospital and the sadhu who has to run this huge hospital. And so many monastics under him as well. And so many people, like, day and night people coming, I wonder that. Our general secretary, he's the-- we have over 300 centers around the world, over 200 in India. We're an international organization. Yet, at night time, I see him going to the temple. So Swami Vivekananda talked about this, it's in karma yoga, the ability to attach and detach. We cultivate the ability to attach. But why do we get caught? We don't have the ability to detach. So that's what we have to do. And just one senior monk told me regarding that morning meditation. At least, we try to meditate twice a day. So morning meditation is thinking mind is more fresh, thinking about the spiritual practice of the-- evening time, in addition to everything else, doing this Vichada, this self reflection apinchara. And part of that also is, OK, I'm getting kind of stuck here, so slowly detaching from it. SWAMI SACHIDANANDA: I don't see a big problem in mixing with the world or draining out one's energy or being very particular about it in the sense sometimes when we complicate the way we engage, life seems complicated. So to actively engage with the world is not so difficult. And yet, be centered is just to know where-- who you are and just be at a neutral place in every experience and engage with the world. And one of the illustrations given in Bhagavad Gita, how I use that wisdom in my life is that of a tortoise. So it comes out of its shell to engage with the world. Again, it moves into its own shell and draws all its balance energy from it. So that's how I approach. And it's just I feel it's quite simple. World need not be looked upon as a place where you drain out all your energy and nothing like that. You could simply approach the world in varied experiences that it brings in and just go through life as any-- as it brings forth, yeah. That's my view. Thank you. FRANCIS CLOONEY: And I think we have time for one more question before-- we can stay around and chat for a while, but just one more question before we break. Yes, here comes the microphone. AUDIENCE: Thank you for you guys' presentation. I'm actually very glad to be able to hear from you guys today. I'm just very open minded myself, seeking just the different perspectives. And so I had a question for you guys. What is your perception of God? FRANCIS CLOONEY: A simple question to ask. \[LAUGHTER\] SWAMI SACHIDANANDA: For me, God is everything. All that is here, all that we see, all that we don't see, all that we understand, all that we don't understand is all God to me. And this view, this assimilated view comes to me from the theology of \[NON-ENGLISH\] from Upanishad's perspective that all that is here is God alone, nothing else. So that's God to me, yeah. SWAMI CHIDEKANANDA: Yes, what Swami Ji said in the \[NON-ENGLISH\] yes. Now I'll add one thing to it that, actually, in our order, we have many advaitins, but we also have some that were in a dualitic order. But some also practice their bhaktas, they're dualist. We have some that are vishishtadvaita, meaning this God is pantheistic. So it's in the-- I don't know if you've read the Leela Prasanga, The Great, but or the Gospel of-- Ramakrishna had that experience. One day, he was-- just saw this entire-- he called it vigyana vidanta. He saw this entire universe, everything around him saturated with consciousness like pillows, everything saturated. The name and form was there. But it was saturated, seeing consciousness everywhere. I've sometimes met some monks in our order. Our order, they stay very hidden. They don't advertise themselves. You know, we have 2,000 monks. Some of them are great gems. I like to probe and try to find out where they are. But there was one monk swami? Shraddhanand Ji. My brother narrated this when he came last time. I met him as well. He was once repeating his mantra japam. Suddenly, he sees everywhere this japam manifesting everywhere, the table, the pillow, everything. Now he's in a predicament. He needs to go to the restroom but he doesn't know what to do \[CHUCKLES\] seeing that mantra manifest everywhere. So he just asks another monk there, just stay here, repeat the mantra and I'll be back. What the main thing is that these have to be not just saying. Well, what did Swami Vivekananda say? That the religion is meant for realization, not from the words, right? From the heart. From the mind. Thank you. FRANCIS CLOONEY: Thank you. So as we conclude the formal session, I think, first of all, I'd like to Thank everyone, including our AV person whose name might slip me for recording the session, which will be up at the HDS website. There are still snacks to eat and share and nothing should be left before you leave the room, so that's a rule also. And I have happy news to say that we'll have two more visiting monastics next year. It's not quite public yet, so I can't tell you who they are, but we will have two more next year due to our generous donors. And I believe that Yun Chen wanted to say something before we complete. AUDIENCE: Yes, we are international HDS students. Thank you for Swami Ji for both your amazing enlightening presentations and inspiring responses. We are grateful for the wisdom and insights you shared with us today. And as a token of our appreciation, we'd like to offer you two beautiful bouquets. \[APPLAUSE\] AUDIENCE: Hi. OK, we have more to say because we love both swami ji you so much. I know we're the only thing between you and home, so we'll be fast. I know Swami Ji Asmor and Rajiv will talk to you, but I think for me and I think I speak on behalf of all your friends here who are in the crowd, it has been such a blessing to have you here this year. I've seen you work miracles, Swami Ji. And I think, miracles not in the sense of magic tricks, but in that sense of, like, love and kindness and radical generosity. And I think all of you in the crowd know what I'm talking about. I think that one example comes to mind once when a friend was in a tight spot. And HDS administration did what they could in their role. And Swami Ji, in his words, he said Swami Sachidananda did what I thought no human being could do for me. And you did it and it was miraculous. And afterwards, you were like, let's go get cookies and let's get chips. Let's get ice cream. Watch me on my scooter. I'm cool. \[CHUCKLES\] And I think this very much-- and I think all of us in the crowd feel that we are so blessed by you, to have known you. I don't know what I've done to deserve you as a friend. It has felt like grace and a blessing. And knowing you, has helped us know God more. So thank you. \[APPLAUSE\] AUDIENCE: And to Swami Ji Chidekananda, in the same light, it's such a privilege to have, not one, but two Swami Jis here with us. And I met you early on in the semester. And to be a classmate with you and to witness your humility that, even though we talked about your extensive training to be a wealth of knowledge, but to sit next to us in class and ask the questions with us and show that humility is a blessing for us to be in contact with you. So we're very grateful to have you around as one of two guiding lights for our Hindu body and others in the school as well. So thank you. AUDIENCE: And I'll just add briefly, something Swami Chidekananda said to me during orientation. I think I came in with a lot of very open wounds as it relates to my relationship to Hinduism. And being in company with both Swami Sachidananda and Swami Chidekananda has been such a balm to some of those wounds and has given me the space to, not only seek breadth in my understanding of religion, but also dig into Hinduism. And that's been in your patient and kind and generous and open-minded company. So thank you both. FRANCIS CLOONEY: And again, thank you all for coming and let's continue the conversation if you can hang around and talk with swamis more. But thank you all. SPEAKER 1: Copyright 2024, The President and Fellows of Harvard College. See also:- [ Student Activities and Interviews ](/discover-stories-about/student-activities-and-interviews) - [ India ](/topic-tags/india)