Hope Podcast: Featuring Keisha Bush, MTS '24

In this episode of the Hope Podcast, we sit down with Keisha Bush, a second-year MTS student. We discuss the importance of intention and the value of community.

RILEY BROWN: Welcome to the Hope Podcast, a show about Harvard Divinity School students and how they find hope in difficult times. My name is Riley Brown, and I am a second year masters of divinity candidate, chaplain intern in the Office of Religious and Spiritual Life here at HDS and I'll be the host of today's conversation. I'm joined by Keisha Bush, a second year NTS student. Keisha, welcome to the show. 

KEISHA BUSH: Thank you so much, Riley. I'm excited to be here. 

RILEY BROWN: Yeah, thank you for making room in your busy schedule to come here and chat with me. So I want to begin with having you introduce yourself a little bit to our audience. Where are you from? Do you follow or belong to a religious or spiritual tradition? Things of that nature. 

KEISHA BUSH: I'm actually from Boston. So I was born here in Roxbury, and then I grew up in Dorchester. And then my later years, Mattapan. I did flee Massachusetts, like many people do after undergrad and went to New York. 

And so New York has been the city that has raised me into adulthood. And it's when I decided to go back to school for another master's that I googled Harvard Divinity. I was like, does Harvard have a divinity school? 

I'm a novelist, who also has a background in communications because I went to business school for undergrad. But I'm a novelist and a teacher. I teach. I had been teaching for over five years, part time, like English 101 literature courses. 

And I'm here at the Div School, Divinity School, for a number of reasons, some practical. One like, oh, I need health insurance. That would be very, very nice. 

The other was to, I know it sounds-- hopefully, it doesn't sound, I don't know, bougie, but to hide out from the publishing industry because it's not a nice space for writers, or for a lot of people. I mean, as a writer, the industry is about fast money for products that take a really long time to produce. You and I had talked about this a little earlier, but unless you're coming from money, some kind of support system, it feels virtually impossible to create and pay bills and live. 

And so as a writer, always looking for residencies and fellowships. And when I was thinking about another master's, I wanted to focus on something that I was really interested in. I realized like, oh wait, I love religion. And I didn't realize that a theology degree also made space for literary. 

So my focus here at the Div School is religion literature and culture. And it's been the most amazing experience and just literally exactly what I needed. And I feel like we don't often experience exactly what we need in life. 

And I didn't know what my experience would be, what the classes would be like. But I just felt like this was the right space to me. And what I've been able to just discover and explore has just been so-- this is the Div School, such a blessing, but yeah. 

RILEY BROWN: Good. I'm glad that it's great to hear that. I think some people-- I know HDS is a lot of things to a lot of people. And I'm glad to hear that it has been exactly what you need in your own phrase. So that's very heartening to me. 

And I want to ask, too, I moved to JP when I moved to Boston, which is kind of around your neck of the woods, it sounds like. I guess I just want to-- did you ever have any idea of going to Harvard, living in Roxbury? And did you say Dorchester? 

KEISHA BUSH: Yeah, Dorchester. 

RILEY BROWN: Yeah, because it's been a struggle for me to get to Harvard in terms of distance. And I was just curious, yeah, growing up in Boston and in and around the Southern part JP Mattapan-- Harvard, yeah. 

KEISHA BUSH: And what's interesting is my family used to make this trip for more than a decade. And we would-- let's say, coming from Dorchester because by then, I'm like maybe eight years old, we would pass through-- we had to pass through over by Commonwealth Ave, by BU and then come down, get to Memorial Drive, we would pass through here. So we had seen the Harvard students all the time. 

And jump on Route 2 and go out, I don't know-- now, you're going to see how American I am. I don't know what direction that is. 

RILEY BROWN: Neither do I. I don't even know what Roue 2 is if it makes you feel better. 

KEISHA BUSH: I'm like, is Route 2 going North, West? Who knows? I'm a New Englander, that's all that matters. And so I grew up seeing these college students. And then I ended up going to Bentley. 

And so the Bentley shuttle is right here in Harvard Square. So that's how I would take the red line from-- by now, my family's living in Mattapan. I would take the red line from Ashmont over there-- 

RILEY BROWN: Which is a long way. 

KEISHA BUSH: Yup. And then come here to Harvard Square and grab the Harvard shuttle over on Brattle Street and then make it to Bentley. But again, and I'm always-- so much of my life growing up was this transitory action through Harvard Square, through Cambridge, and seeing Harvard students. And what's fascinating is for me, it was like a world that I just never thought I could, quote, unquote, "penetrate this world", or somehow belong to it. 

And so I just never-- maybe this is-- I guess little kids should have bigger dreams, but I was such a pragmatist. I was like, this isn't my world, and that's OK. So I just never thought. 

So when I decided to-- when I saw-- so I have-- OK, I remember when I first came to the website, I was like, oh, this is a really nice website. And it's so informative and doing my research about the school. And then there's videos, which are-- I'm like, this is such a heartwarming place. 

And then I went to Union Seminary, their website. And I went to Yale's and I'm like, oh, it just feels so cold. I feel so embraced by this amazing Harvard Divinity website that puts a personality and really actually puts the people forward first. 

And I'm like, whoever did this website deserves an honorary PhD. They probably already have one. 

RILEY BROWN: Go communications. 

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly, like, this is genius. And so then I applied. And when I got in-- I'll be honest, I didn't expect to get in. So I was like, oh my gosh, they made a mistake. I'm going to get a letter in three days telling me, dear Keisha Bush, we're so sorry to inform you that, that was a mistake of the algorithm. 

So yeah, no. So this is just like what compelled me. I don't know, maybe it was the Google algorithm. Because it happened in such a-- surprising is the word I like to use. 

Oftentimes we love surprises. And so I love when I surprise myself. And for me, that makes it even more exciting. 

RILEY BROWN: Well, you're here now. 

KEISHA BUSH: I am. 

RILEY BROWN: And you made it. And you do belong here, which is great. So having introduced yourself a little bit, could you give us a brief spiritual autobiography? And state explicitly the religious tradition you belong to, if you belong to any and the role that tradition has played in your life. 

KEISHA BUSH: I very interestingly come from a pluralistic-- the way I like to describe it is a pluralistic religious background. So my family were practicing Jehovah Witnesses. And then when I was around eight years old, my mother converted to Islam because she divorced and got remarried, and my stepfather was Muslim. So through now my formative years, there was a almost like relearning of text and story and narrative. 

And then when I was about 16 or 17 years old, they had a rip. And I think it was-- I was still distant at that point. I'm in my teens, I'm working, I'm trying to get through high school. But they had, I think, a theological rip in their relationship. 

And my mother stopped attending the mosque. And because we were her children, we weren't going to the mosque anymore either. I was also in my teens and I was like, you people have no idea what you're doing. I'm so angry. 

And so then I, a bit lost, ended up discovering Buddhism. And actually, the first tradition I was introduced to through a colleague was the nichiren daishonin, nam myoho renge kyo, or the people who chant that. And so I was an active practitioner of that practice for about four years. 

But I was really-- I questioned a lot. And so I had a theological rip with that tradition in particular because I by then have practiced very dedicatedly three different traditions that don't necessarily-- that have overlaps but are not synergistic in a way that they are practiced. And so then I was lost for about a year or two. I'm still in my 20s. 

And I end up finding a friend who introduced me to Theravada Buddhism, Vipassana, which is mindfulness. And I've practiced that ever since. And I think one of the things-- and I'm in New York by now. And there is a very active Black Buddhist community in New York, New York City. 

And our teachers are very diverse of all different races and so are our members, too, of the place that I practice, New York insight Meditation Society. But what I found for me within that community was a pluralistic approach to faith. So although our teachers were teaching the Dharma, the Buddha, his teachings, they would quote Jesus. They would quote poetry, Mary Oliver and Rumi. 

And we had people who were Muslim, but practicing Buddhism, also mindfulness meditation. We would have teachers-- like we could go-- our space is very pretty at the time, very beautiful. And we rented it and it was open to people of other faiths and within Buddhism. 

So I've had the opportunity to sit with and practice with Tibetan Buddhists. There was also Tibet house that I would go to. And also, Zen monastic teaching, I would attend. And so although I am in the Theravada Vipassana tradition, my own practice is somewhat pluralistic itself. 

And it's so funny, I lived in West Africa, which is in Senegal, which is a Muslim and traditional, like 95%, 98% of the population. And it's so funny. So Christians think I'm Christian, especially Black Christians. 

They're like, hey, where's your church. And I'm like, I don't have a church. And they're like, oh my God, are you atheist? And I'm like, no. Well, OK, I'm Buddhist. I practice Buddhism. 

And then Muslims are like, oh, you're still Muslim. And I was just like, yeah. So everyone thinks I'm their faith. And I love that because it means that we have a language. I have this pluralistic religious language in which I can speak to people from different faiths and we can connect and see each other's humanity. 

And I think that, as frustrated as a kid as I was with all the switching, I was also curious, too, as a kid, and that has given me something that is precious. And I don't know what to call it, but it's precious. And that was one of my top interests also for coming back to Div School. 

Because I feel like Divinity School is like communications, the School of Communications, a.k.a Divinity. Because what we're able to do with our studies, with our research is really learn additional languages or learn the language of theology deeper because theology sits in people's heart space. And even people who are atheist, that is a belief system, and to be able to recognize that. I think we're really lucky that we've found ourselves on this path. It's really joyous. 

RILEY BROWN: And it's so interesting that you're so uniquely qualified to engage in inter-religious dialogue because, as you say, you have all of this history that is so unique, especially to the American context. Despite being an American yourself, you have this history of predominantly not-- or of not being a part of predominant religions in America, which is so-- that's, like you say, such a blessing that you-- I'm sure, very frustrating, like you said, as a child. 

But at this point in your life, you're at such a place and at HDS, you're in such a place that you can speak to so many, you can speak to so much, which is cool. And it's great to that you see that as a good thing because I think a lot of people might see it as maybe a hindrance. Or if say, someone really bought in-- given your background, them really bought in to something else that wasn't as pluralistic, it would make them be more likely to say, oh well, this is bad, and this is bad, and this is bad. 

Whereas your tradition now has given you the perspective to appreciate all of the things that have molded you. Yeah, that's great. So the central theme of this podcast is hope. But before we talk explicitly about what gives you hope, I was curious if you could talk about what I would call vehicles for hope, or something that Carrie told me. 

A nice illustration is, if hope is a seed, what tools do you use to cultivate the ground that you're planting your seed of hope in. Yeah, what are your vehicles for hope? What are your tools that give you strength? And these can be anything from insights or practices that you engage in regularly, or whatever. 

KEISHA BUSH: That's such a wonderful question. And I love Carrie's visual of it. What are my tools? It's so funny. Years ago, I was on the phone with a family member. I won't out them. 

And they very-- not in a nice way, they go, everyone can't be as happy as you, Keisha. And I'm like, do you think that's easy? You're so positive. It's not easy. It is cultivated. 

Now, I've learned this through experience. I play or play-- I do little experiments, or I conduct experiments with myself to see what the result will be. And one of the ways, how do I cultivate or what are one of my tools for hope is intention. 

So at one point, I'm not supposed to, quote, unquote, "run". I have a limitation due to fused bones in my feet. But I was still running because I want to. Who doesn't want to do what other people can do? I'm human. 

So I learned to just go for one run a week. And I had all this knee pain. And I said, what am I going to do about this knee pain? And so during one of my meditations, there's a loving kindness and a meta meditation, where you say, may I be happy and at peace. 

May I be safe and protected from all harm. May I be healthy and have a strong body. May I have ease and joy in my life. And an additional one, one teacher taught me is, may I be free. 

You do it for yourself. You do it for people close to you. You do it for people that you have a neutral relationship with, that you never think about, like the mail person or the bus driver. And then you do it for someone that's kind of difficult and then someone who's very difficult in your life, OK. 

And I started to play around with this idea of language. And I said, what if I said, I am happy and at peace, I am safe and protected from all harm, my knee does not have pain? 

RILEY BROWN: As your knee is throbbing in pain. 

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly. And I did that for like two weeks. And suddenly, the pain in my knee is completely gone. And later, I'm like, mind over matter. 

And then I go, wait a second, in those two weeks, I went and bought a pair of new sneakers that are better supportive of my feet. And that's where the source of my knee pain was coming from. And what I realized is, oftentimes, the intention that I put in the world, the thing that I speak, what happens is my unconscious-- this is what I believe is happening, my unconscious is saying, OK, if our knee does not hurt, it's because we need to do something.

What do we need to do? We need to go buy some new sneakers. And so I approach life with a level of playfulness because it is absurd in its own way, all of this noise, all of this chaos, the hurting one another and all of it. And for me, it just doesn't make sense. 

So what if I practice kindness? What if I practice listening? What if I practice patience? What happens if I say that I'm going to do these things? How well I shift? 

I discovered years ago, like so many other people, because this is a cultural thing, I would put myself down. I call myself names. If I something and break it, oh Keisha, you're so and I would use one of those words. 

And I said to myself, what if I-- I said, OK, this is what I'll do, I'll say the antonym to the word. So if I call myself, I now have to say out loud, oh girl, you're so smart. And I started to do that. And I felt so corny calling myself smart, calling myself, I don't know, beautiful, whatever it was, that I just stopped saying the negative word. 

And so because I began this new habit, now, the habit was just don't call yourself the name at all. What I discovered was all this emotional space was freed up within me because I wasn't harping down or punching down on myself. And a side effect of that is I had no need to punch down on anyone else. 

I basically lost the language of harm. Not to say that it doesn't crop up sometime. You're like, what's wrong? 

RILEY BROWN: But it's not an immediate response. 

KEISHA BUSH: It's really not. And I can actually catch myself at this point. And so I didn't realize that not punching down on myself would change my approach to other people. And so what it ended up doing is opening up all this narrative space, all this emotional space for me to fill it with something else. 

And I guess I went through this whole little explanation to realize, or to say that one of my tools of hope is language, very intentional language. And I think part of that came from Buddhism because within the Buddhist community, we were taught to say-- not to call ourselves Buddhists, but to I practice Buddhism. So what is it to say that I practice Buddhism, that I practice equity? 

And that's the other thing. We live in a world where it's like we're fighting for equality. We're fighting for freedom. We're fighting capitalism. And I'm like, fighting, what a word. I'm fighting for this and so I'm an activist. 

I started to say, what if I change my language and the way that I approach it? So what is a way to-- what's another way to say that? And I realized I practice equity. I practice inclusion. I practice safety. 

And if I'm a practitioner of it, if I, by some intention or non-intention, cause harm, one, I tried to forgive myself in that moment or at some point, but also in that forgiveness, also speak. And if it's somebody who's on the other end, I apologize. I didn't actually mean to do that. I'm sorry. 

Even if it's days later, people are often like, oh, Keisha, I wasn't even thinking about that. Well, I was. But I realized to do that, I had to not hold shame. Because we're taught, especially in this country, we're all holding shame. And so often, we don't even know where that shame comes from. 

It's been passed down to us, or pushed on to us. So I guess that was a really long answer, too, about-- 

RILEY BROWN: A very good answer though, I'll say, yeah. 

KEISHA BUSH: --about language and intention. And if I'm looking at my own language and questioning my own language, that causes me to be silent more often than not. So then I'm also listening and thinking. 

RILEY BROWN: And I think what you said, speaking from my own tradition, the importance of the way you view yourself affects the way you view others. I struggled with that for a long time in the Christian tradition, of which I'm a part. Some strands say, basically, and in different words, obviously, but they'll say, God hates you. 

And I never realized that totally colored how I saw other people. Because if God hates me, God hates everyone else, too. And why should I be kind? And that's just something that has taken some theological work on my end. 

But it's so true, this vertical relationship, whether that's with yourself and something that you see to be higher, or just how you view yourself within yourself totally affects how you interact with others in the world. So I think that is a truism across all things. But thank you for such a good answer. So now, to state it plainly, what would you say gives you hope? 

KEISHA BUSH: Hope is such a-- hope is what has allowed-- I think about this. I believe hope is what has allowed humanity to continue and to evolve and to expand. And without it, it's almost as if we're lost in the dark matter in the universe. So hope keeps us tethered to right now. It keeps us tethered to one another. 

And we are struggling with isolation and loneliness is a big thing that has been in the public narrative for a while now. And one of the ways that I actually keep hope, have been able-- and we have such a great example since 2020. The world is so tumultuous, the pandemic, killer bugs at one point. You're like, oh my God-- 

RILEY BROWN: End times. 

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly. Every single delta, omicron. And then the political unrest across globally. And we ask ourselves, it looks hopeless quite frankly. So how do we hold on to hope? 

And for me, it has been community. I know here at the Div School, I've noticed people are uncomfortable with the word network. They use network in business. The law school, you have to network. 

And I've changed that word to community. You have people in your community that you don't talk to every day, but they're still part of your community. Your postman, the family that owns the store, the local store, the hardware store, your neighbors, your place of faith is part of your community. 

And when a community supports one another and is interested in the health of the community, I believe that-- and I have been able to embrace and hold on to hope through this time. It's not to say that, that hope hasn't been challenged because it has. There have been times where I was feeling hopeless and I realized, let me call a friend. Let's go for a walk. Tell me what's going on in your life. 

And reconnecting with-- New York has been home for me, even though I was born here in Massachusetts. And so when I go back to the city, that's what we call it, I reach out to my friends. A perfect example is before I did my MFA, my first Masters, I would give two parties a year, like house parties, my birthday and Christmas, like the December time. 

So it was a holiday party, so therefore it was inclusive. It didn't matter what your background was, let's have food and just get together. And my part in these get togethers, these house parties, I had people as young as-- I was actually a big sister to a young 16-year-old girl in East New York. 

So she was able to bring her friend and it was so fancy for her because she's hanging out with these adults all the way up to people within my community, who were in their 70s and 80s. And I love this multigenerational, multibackground. I remember some friends coming and they're like, what is this, the United Nations, Keisha? You have everyone from so many different countries and backgrounds. 

And I'm like, yes. And someone told me one day and it was at that party, they said-- this one particular one-- I know your politics. I was like, well, I never really thought about it like that. These are just friends. 

So for me, community has been number one. Practice and ritual, whether it's prayer or meditation, but something to-- and I think prayer, meditation belong in the same family. And grounding oneself in nature. I love animals. 

At the time, I would feed the birds because I had that opportunity. Well, also I had a possum. I named her Patricia. There was a rascal, Ronnie the Raccoon. 

RILEY BROWN: Did you have a pet raccoon, or the raccoon was just around? 

KEISHA BUSH: He was around. 

RILEY BROWN: But you had the pet possum? 

KEISHA BUSH: Actually, she was around also. 

RILEY BROWN: Oh, She Was just around, too. 

KEISHA BUSH: They're all wild. And I had adopted two stray cats. They didn't live with me because they weren't interested in that. But there was Casanova because all the ladies fed him in the neighborhood. 

RILEY BROWN: Great name for a cat. 

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly. And his girlfriend, Lily, who is very-- what is that word when they're really-- 

RILEY BROWN: Like feisty? 

KEISHA BUSH: Yes. She would tear everybody up anyway. So being part of the world around me and recognizing the beauty of life with the trees, the animals, my neighbors, even neighbors who at first chance thought maybe I didn't agree with them. I was living in Oklahoma at one point during-- this is where I had all the animals. 

And my neighbor across the street, he was so funny. Somebody stole his package one day. And so I came out and I was like, I think, it might have been these people who do drugs. And they had left the box of the stuff. 

And so he goes, well, if I was home, I would have got my gun and came out. And I was like, well, you know what, you defend yourself. And he knew I was from New York. And he's like-- and he looked at me and I'm like, look, I don't believe in people stealing each other's stuff. 

And when I was moving-- his name was Jared. When I was moving, I was just like, yeah, I'm moving. I'm going back East. And I was like, Jared, just to let you know, I felt so much safer because you were my neighbor across the street. He was just so nice. And also, if anything went down-- and I'm not pro-violence, but if anything went down, he had a gun. 

RILEY BROWN: Jared would protect you. 

KEISHA BUSH: And he laughed. And I love when we surprise each other. My politics-- I think our politics were different. But it doesn't mean that we can't be neighbors, that we can't be friends, that we can't look out for each other, and that we can't have jokes. 

And also, I think for me, one of the things that I specifically decided, I try to be intentional, is to tell people how I feel about them. And I'm much more forward with that. I appreciate you. You made me feel more safe, which he actually did without ever knowing. 

And if I never said that to him, he would have never known that. You look really nice today. I love your hat. And it doesn't cost me anything to do these things. 

And so this intention and not to be afraid, I realized that to be vulnerable, I have to practice courage. And to practice courage is to admit that I'm afraid. And that's OK. 

And so one day, it was like 2016, I was in my apartment in Harlem, 2:00 AM, in my room by myself, and I said, I'm going to practice more vulnerability. And then I said, what does that even look like? I have no idea. 

But I'm like, it's my intention. So I'm a huge, clearly, fan of stating intentions, a huge fan of being intentional about my language. I'm a huge supporter of building community. 

And that doesn't mean that like, oh, my community is 1,000 people because I have 50,000 friends, I really don't-- but I appreciate people and I think people in humans and animals. I think everyone's really interesting. And I'm glad that I'm still in awe of our existence because it's fascinating. 

RILEY BROWN: It's important too. 

KEISHA BUSH: It is. It is. So is that-- let me see what else do I do for Hope. Being active is one of the ways that I've really have been able to foster that and being honest with myself. How am I feeling? One of my big things is asking for help when I need it. That has been huge for me. And it has fostered hope in a way that I didn't-- that I didn't realize was so important because when I ask for help, I'm not leaving myself isolated to fall down-- 

RILEY BROWN: Into hopelessness. 

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly. I'm like, please. [LAUGHS] 

RILEY BROWN: And there's always somebody. 

KEISHA BUSH: There is. There is. Look, that mailman, the family that runs the store, we're all part of this. And when you are able to recognize how beautiful, Important other people are, I find that they've returned it to me in ways that I didn't even expect. 

RILEY BROWN: I would say personally, too, I've also ways that I wouldn't have expected and also ways that I feel like I wouldn't have deserved. But there's always-- I have found, too, that there's always someone willing to lend a hand. 

Well, thank you so much for sharing. But before I let you go, I wanted to ask real quickly if you had any parting wisdom by way of recommendation. Is there a practice, podcast, book, movie or whatever else you might recommend to listeners who need a little hope? 

[LAUGHS] 

KEISHA BUSH: I was talking to some colleagues the other day and I said, I actually don't have a very loud voice. And the last two years I've been the emcee for this conference here at Harvard through my organization over at the Chan School. And one of my favorite movies is Bridget Jones's Diary. This movie is so silly, but also so funny. And I don't know. Maybe it's just this funny woman who's down on her luck. [LAUGHS] And I think what it is laughter, the ability to laugh. And. If I'm feeling so down, I will find something to make me laugh. So Bridget Jones's Diary makes me laugh. 

And in terms of books or podcasts, well, Laughter is one, so funny movie, Like Boss Baby. When I saw that, I was just like, I love the Minions. Like I'm in a silly space when it's just laugh, release those endorphins. 

And I guess, I'm wondering good books to fall into-- You know was so interesting, and I'm not really into the big self-help, but The Power of Now was a really interesting book for me to read. Is very repetitive, which actually aggravated me. [LAUGHS] But then by the time I got to the end of the book, I'm like, that's why it's very repetitive. It's trying to get you to just focus on the right now. [LAUGHS] 

But yeah, I guess I know it feels oversimplified that I don't have some book that's like it's going to be the thing. But finding opportunities to keep laughter in my life-- 

RILEY BROWN: Whether that be a movie or a podcast or a book.

KEISHA BUSH: Exactly. Exactly. 

RILEY BROWN: Well, thank you for the recommendations and thank you for joining me, Keisha. This was so great. 

KEISHA BUSH: Thank you so much, Riley. This has been amazing. 

RILEY BROWN: That is it. We did it. 

KEISHA BUSH: That's awesome. 

RILEY BROWN: Thank you so much. That was so-- that was great. I had a great time.