Hope Podcast: Featuring Taylon E. Lancaster, MDiv candidate

In this episode of the Hope Podcast, we hear from Taylon E. Lancaster, a third-year MDiv candidate at HDS and pastor at Third Baptist Church in Springfield, MA. We discuss his pursuits as a drum major for justice, the role of rest, and what hope looks like in community.

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Welcome to the Hope Podcast, a podcast hosted by the Harvard Divinity School Office of Religious and Spiritual Life, where we talk to HDS students about their spiritual lives, what hope means to them, and how they work to cultivate it daily. My name is Michael Fuhrman, one of the RSL chaplain interns. Today I sat down and had a conversation with third-year MDiv candidate Reverend Taylon E. Lancaster. Thank you so much for sitting down to have a conversation with me today. We really appreciate it. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Happy to be here. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: We just want to start by giving you the opportunity to introduce yourself and maybe give us a little bit about your spiritual biography. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Absolutely. Thank you so much once again, Michael, for this opportunity to be on today. Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon. Whatever time of day that you all might be tuning in to this. I am Reverend Taylon E. Lancaster, a senior pastor of third Baptist church in Springfield, Massachusetts, and a third-year Master of Divinity candidate here at Harvard Divinity School. 

I derive, I would say, come out of the Black Baptist faith tradition. And so for me, as a southerner from Florida, I have been able to really format my spiritual faith walk or journey out of the Black church, but also in spaces like HDS that include a diverse group of religions. And so that's been really formative to my development as a pastor, a spiritual leader, and community developer, and striving social activist. 

And so I began playing the drums at church at the tender age of 10 years old. And as a result of me playing the drums and being exposed once again to various faith traditions, I believe that that's what has allowed me to utilize my voice and my gifts to be somewhat of a drum major for justice in the Black church and beyond. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Wow. Thank you so much. I didn't know you were a drummer, Taylon. So it makes sense that you have that rhythm of life. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: I think it is. It is a rhythm of rhythm of life. And I look at it, in king's notion of being that drum major for justice. And for me, I just go with the flow. And I also try to make sure that I keep persons as unison as possible to the metric of justice that I see being enacted through us as Jesus hands and feet. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Amazing. And I think a lot of people, oftentimes when they meet people from HDS, have that question of so, why then grad school with that spiritual backing? And I guess the question then is, so what led you to Harvard Divinity School or graduate school at this time?

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Quite frankly, Michael, I was looking at more Christocentric-centered Divinity School seminaries across the country. But one of the things that intrigued me about HDS was this eclectic nature to studying once again, amongst others who maybe didn't believe in the same doctrinal beliefs in which we held. You held to be true but allowed for space. And that space was created to create more dialogue. 

And I think that where we're at in the world and at this time, this was prior to the uprising of the sociopolitical conflict in Israel and Palestine. And so as a result of that, me going over there, seeing the religious dimensions of the conflict also inspired me upon my senior year in 2022 to apply to HDS. Also, being that I am a musician, I've always gotten an opportunity to play once again across religious lines. 

And so I was playing at Baptist churches, I'm playing at Methodist churches, I'm playing at Seventh Day Adventist churches. Because God was really allowing my gifts to make room for themselves. And so as a result of that, I found myself when I began to apply for Divinity School and graduate school to look for spaces where in which my full self could be immersed without judgment, and where in which I could study amongst people that would help me to properly understand and grapple with where we're at today, to move forward, hopefully in a spirit of cohesion and in a spirit of just peace. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: And I really appreciate the way you talk about playing across the lines. And I find that at HDS, that's a story that so many have in their own way, this idea of exposure across boundaries that then incites that curiosity to keep pushing. So I appreciate you sharing how that aspect of it defines then that decision to not be in what many would call a Christian-centric school but be somewhere else. I'm curious then what that's been like. 

I would say that it's just awakening for me, the possibilities of religion and recognizing that religion should not be linear. And if it is linear, it should also still once again have the space for possibilities and space for inclusion of all persons. And for me, it is just-- I was speaking to a friend a few weeks ago, outside of helping me to become a better thinker and a better scholar. 

I think that HDS ultimately has helped me to become a better human and allowed me to reevaluate, deconstruct, as well as reconstruct ways of thought that align with my Christian values that don't, I would say, separate the two or bifurcate the two, but really allow for my moral values and my Christian values to come alive and even contend with some of, what I would say, the disposition that you may have within your faith and within what you know are your eternal oughtness that you have. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Thank you so much for sharing that. And I call it the container of this podcast is this idea of hope. And you've spoken so much already about faith, and morals, and how those come to action. And I think one of the main questions of this then would be to ask you, what does hope mean to you, maybe in the context of those things or outside of them as well? 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: I think that hope broadly understood is an expectation for the future. And for me, I think it is centered in that to a certain extent, and faith tradition faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. For me, though, I look at hope as a form of resistance, for a means of hope or a means of an expectant good end. I think that a lot of the times, we associate hope to a future aspiration, when hope for me is in the present, and it is in the act of resisting for a means of a better future, or better-intended desire that you have for your future. 

So, for me, it is just a form of resistance that allows you to move into the future. And I say it is working within the present and the future. And sometimes the hope that we may have for the future may not manifest itself in the present, but it is that act of resistance that in and of itself is hope. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Thank you for that. And then the next thing I'm thinking of is, when you define hope as resistance, resistance can be tiring. And I'm sure you more than anyone as a community leader and organizer, understand the wear and tear that resistance within communities and outside of communities can have. And so I'm curious then to know how you cultivate that sense of hope or cultivate that resistance. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: And Michael, great question. Follow up question to that, I think, that first and foremost, resistance should not just be understood in a Western way of thinking, but I think that it also it falls also in nonviolent ways in this form of resistance, also comes in doing things that are contrary to the culture as well. And so for me, it is tiring. It is sometimes even just tiring to be misunderstood for some. 

And so just this work because that's ultimately what it is. When hope is directed for me towards healing and towards the collective, it is just this work. And so this justice work that we are engaged in is tiring. Which is why even during this time, I am encouraging persons to rest and to take time for oneself to prophetically sit-in the stillness and knowing that God or the numinous is fighting for you. And This is an opportunity for us to regroup, for us to realign, and even to reassess what the future looks like for us. 

And so I would say that, and so for me, resistance falls under the umbrella of nonviolent protest. One of the things that I'm exploring within my thesis is how resistance and injustice can be embodied. For me, the Black church is a site of justice and a site of hope. Why? Because it allows for space for the reclamation of Black bodies. So when we look at the worship, the singing, and the preacher, these individuals or these characterizations in which Bois labels are really manifestations of embodied justice. 

And so I desire for us to cultivate this hope and this resistance by embodying our full selves, embodying really and really resisting whatever it is that doesn't create space for our whole selves, and for the entirety of God's creation. And there to be a sacredness and I would say, even value attached to every living, breathing and created thing. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Thank you so much. I find it's so compelling when you talk about this idea of embodying both the rest and the resistance. And that then turns to justice by making sure you're allowing for both of those principles to exist within the body. And as someone who's gotten some insight into your academic work, I find it so compelling as well, too. But also know that your day-to-day is also still being a full-time minister at third. And so I would love to ask, how this academic piece that you're working on with embodiment and justice, you see playing out in your day-to-day as a full-time minister? 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: I am privileged every Sunday to deliver the word of God, to lead God's people, and to love on God's people at third Baptist church. And as a result of me being there within this past year, outside of the great community work in which we've done social justice advocacy work we've done, one of the things that I have been able to evaluate is the Sunday morning, I would say affect, Sunday morning affect. And what it really does for the Black body and persons that are oppressed. 

Because even if you're not quote unquote Black, are you ascribe to being Black or African American or one of African descent? The reality of it is those that are oppressed to enter into an alternative world known as the Black church. And you be fully embraced, fully accepted, seen, heard, understood. Whether it is by me, whether it is through the music, or whether it is through a spiritual, transcendent moment where you feel God come to you. 

And you don't feel as if you are other. You don't feel as if you are any less than what God has called you to be. But then in this moment, there is a divine encounter that takes place in worship. And that allowed me to see how if nothing else, this experience is embodying both. It is. Yes, we are calling those accountable that are responsible for the harm and the oppression in which we're experiencing. 

However, we're here celebrating and resting in the reassurance that we have in the God of the oppressed. And how beautiful is that the two can exist? And Raphael Warnock talks about that in the divided mind of the Black church. What is the Black church exist to do, Michael? Does it exist as a space for personal piety, or does it exist a space for public witness? And so for me, I see the two in one. 

But I lean in this hope work and this justice work in seeing how we really embody it every Sunday morning and even on a Monday through Saturday. What members may experience. Because while I'm here in the hallowed halls of Harvard Divinity School, with the elites of the elites, I go to Springfield, Massachusetts, with everyday Black folk. And I'm able to see their common struggles relate to them and hopefully give, give hope in them. But it is happening. And it is really once again this interplay between both worlds. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: I really appreciate the way that I think what you were just saying ascribes to your definition of hope as well, too, that I find so often the sort of contemporary congregation often has to feel potentially troubled by the demand to have social programming that goes above and beyond the drive of a congregation. And to hear you speak just on to some potentially matter of fact. 

The existence of that Sunday morning that affect that just like pure feeling that an individual can have in those spaces I think really ties to that idea that you're sharing about hope being resistance. But a huge part of that resistance being rest and the release of that as well, too. So I just want to thank you for uplifting that in a time, especially when many, I think, turn to look towards what can I do being so driven by production, and so driven by program development, and these words that I think make us feel comfortable, but maybe don't often get to the crux of how the body needs to feel in order to be able to live. Just as hope and whatever word that person feels in that way, too. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: How do we live it out? And at times, it does come in the sacred rest that we have. I also think that we just need to have our own interpretations and our own ways in which we cultivate what we need. And for everyone, it may be different. Which is why I love HDS, because although we are all individual in nature, we have this commonality. And this commonality, I think, is the sacredness of humanity. 

Right now, there are so many of us who are looking for different ways to enact change. And I think that it's needed. But if we can just see the value in each other, I think that is the most beautiful thing that we have right now. Because I have a partner in my church. His name is Andrew. He is the Executive Director for the Food Bank of Western Massachusetts. And he's a Unitarian. 

And we were speaking. And just we were just like, what if what if we could all come together to end world hunger? Not for our own religion, not for our own, but just because that's the right thing to do for our fellow man, fellow man or woman. And so I am, let me just say this, looking more now for our interrelatedness, more than our differences to create this world of hope. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: And I think that really speaks to the idea where you talk on those effects being a part of that interconnectedness. And that really guiding then a strong argument for argument or hope or whatever you want to call it, towards that idea of interconnectedness that I really appreciate. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: I appreciate you. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: I guess, in closing, a question would just be to you, how do you in your day-to-day? You've talked about relationships. You've talked about spiritual practices as well, too. But maybe how do you allow hope to find its place in that embodiment? 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: I think hope first must find itself in you. I think that I look at myself as a living embodiment of hope, not only because of what I aspire, but because of those that dreamed and prayed for my existence. And here I am. Here I am. And so I would say, first and foremost, just understanding that regardless of what background, or faith, tradition, or genealogical upbringing we may have, that we ourselves are hope that the world in which we encompass and exist in today was once a world not of. 

And so in and of itself, we embody a degree of hope. I would also say prayer as well. And not just allowing it to be prayers or routine, but prayer as a lifestyle and praying without ceasing. Always knowing that myself, I'm always in conversation with a higher being. I'm always in conversation. We are always in relation to a higher being. And so even though prayers or words may not always be spoken, it is that observance of knowing that we are always in relation in conversation with a higher being. 

I would also say something that I've picked up on that's been great for me is hot yoga. I don't know what it is. It's outside of my tradition. I know some might condemn me as a result of that additional spiritual practice that I have. But it has been helpful for me. And I think it allows me to if nothing else exhaust myself of some of the weight that I'm carrying. And we have to have that space I think that where you are amongst others. 

And we talk about it within-- my other yogis out there, we talk about it, and how it is that it creates room. Lastly, I would say never take for granted community. And some of us find it's so challenging at times to find community being that many of us are not from Massachusetts or from the Boston area. But wherever and with whomever that you can find community in that company and that presence around those that are like-minded. 

I never take that for granted. And so I have been able to find community in and out of the classroom. But those are some things prayer, community yoga. Those are the main three things. And of course, retail therapy.

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Always that as well, too. I really appreciate that idea of prayer as a lifestyle. I think that's a very expansive. The word that's coming to mind is opening as well to idea that is not just Christocentric but something that it sounds like you've learned that can really break down those boundaries that we've talked about already today as well, too.

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Absolutely. And prayer is not for a specific group of people. But I think prayer is for all persons and in all ways. And even though you may not seal it in Jesus's name, or and Buddha's name, or whatever name that you see or identify as above every other name, but in the name of all things holy. I think that HDS has helped me to frame language in that way, that it is inclusive and all-encompassing of persons that desire to be connected and feel connected not only to a higher being, but to each other. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Well, thank you so much-- 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Thank you so very much. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: --for taking the time to sit down with us today. Just wishing you the best of luck. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Absolutely. I appreciate you so very much. And thank you for this opportunity to come on. And thank you all for tuning in. We hope that you all receive some hope and some ways in which you can garner that hope through my faith practices. So thank you, Michael. And to the entire chaplain team. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Go for. Hope. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: Hope for hope. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Thank you so much. 

TAYLON E. LANCASTER: All right. 

MICHAEL CURTIS FUHRMAN: Well, that was great.