Hospital Chaplaincy: A Praxis Podcast featuring David Holden, MDiv '24

MADDISON TENNEY: David, thank you so much for being on the HDS Praxis podcast. We are so excited to have you.  

DAVID HOLDEN: Great to be here, Maddi.

MADDISON TENNEY: So, before we begin, just tell us a little bit about yourself. Your full name, where you're from, and your pronouns.  

DAVID HOLDEN: David Holden. I'm from New York. Pronouns are he/his/him.  

MADDISON TENNEY: So tell us a little bit about yourself. So what is your degree, and what was your focus?  

DAVID HOLDEN: My degree at the Div School was an MDiv. And like many of us, I came there thinking I was going to do one thing, and I'm now doing something not totally unrelated, but very different. So I came in with the idea—not well explored, I will say—to become a Unitarian minister.  

And that direction came out of the man who helped me get sober, the Rev. Dr. Denis Meacham, was a Unitarian minister that my two moms got me in front of when I had hit bottom on Cape Cod. And he brought me into 12-step recovery and saved my life, along with other people. And I saw the power of the work he did. So that attracted me.  

When I got to HDS, I realized two things. One, I'm not a Unitarian, [LAUGHS] as much as I love my Unitarian sisters and brothers. And I didn't have the calling to be a minister. And I know those two things because when you see people who are Unitarians and who do have a true calling, you know whether you have that or not.  

I was very involved in the Unitarian student organization for my first two years, and so got to know these lovely, wonderful, welcoming people and spending a lot of time with them. And we share a tremendous amount in terms of values and outlook. But it wasn't home for me.  

MADDISON TENNEY: Well, this is making me curious, David. So you didn't quite click with the Unitarian Universalists. That wasn't your space. Do you have a faith tradition that you practice? Or if not, what does your faith practice look like?  

DAVID HOLDEN: So, I was born and raised in a secular Jewish family in New York. And I was bar mitzvahed, kicking and screaming. And then I walked away, and I—30 years of atheism, which coincided with my addiction to drugs and alcohol, which grew over the span of that time.  

So I was just kind of self-propelled, self-will run riot, as we say, in 12-step. And then, unexpectedly, at the Divinity School, I reconnected with Judaism in a very powerful way. And that came from a number of different sources. So when I'm asked, I say I am Jewish, but my spiritual practice centers in 12-step recovery.  

MADDISON TENNEY: So you were at the Kennedy School, and you did the mid-career sort of public policy focus.  

DAVID HOLDEN: Right.  

MADDISON TENNEY: What brought you back to Harvard and Harvard Divinity School, specifically? What did that story look like for you?  

DAVID HOLDEN: Yeah, so some of it was the example of Dennis Meacham, who was, as I mentioned, the minister who helped me get sober. Some of it was the communities that I interacted with during my campaign. And some of it was, when I was at the Kennedy School, the guy who became my best friend there and is still one of my dearest friends, was at the Div School. And so, I got to get a feel for it.  

So it was always kind of in the back of my mind. And so I applied to the Div School and really didn't think I was going to get in. When the email came, my wife and I were sitting on the couch, and we're looking at each other like, uh-oh, now what? But it's a fit for really my whole life. And I had a very powerful spiritual awakening.  

The other thing that contributed to that shift was a gift that my wife gave me. So this would be like the Christmas of year one, which was a deep dive into my family tree, including my father's military experience, which he never discussed, like many World War II veterans. And I learned that he was this young, Jewish, gay soldier in Germany for the last year of the war. 

And so I saw him in a very different light. And I was taking Kevin Madigan's “The Holocaust and the Churches,” and I just thought, I need to be part of this. It continues to unfold. So I use that material to write. My final paper for Kevin was a scene of my—a play scene, my father and I discussing his military experience while he was in the hospital dying. And that expanded into my thesis was a full play on me and my dad, basically.  

MADDISON TENNEY: So you come then to Harvard Divinity School, and you're thinking, Unitarian Universalist. This is my path. You get surprised by Judaism, which sounds incredible. What did you study then and do while you were at the Divinity School? When did that transition happen? How did that happen for you?  

DAVID HOLDEN: So I was desperate for a placement. And I went to the field education fair. And I found this wonderful—these two wonderful women from Brigham and Women's Hospital. And I just fell into a field ed placement at Brigham and Women's and their spiritual care department. It was not what I was expecting, primarily because I'm really squeamish, and I don't like blood.  

MADDISON TENNEY: The hospital, then, is a funny choice.  

DAVID HOLDEN: Yeah, but you do what you have to do. First two months of the placement, I was just making myself crazy because all I'm seeing are the policy failures and the inequities in the system, and how people without resources are constantly failed by the system. And I'm not there for any of that.  

And then one day—I know I'm making myself nuts, and I can't stop doing it. And then one day, I came out of a patient's room after a really powerful interaction, and I said to myself, you're here to ease suffering. That's the work. That's the job. Do that.  

Then it really shifted for me. I want to be in the room and help people. I want to see the help happen. And so that's really what the attraction to chaplaincy was and is.  

MADDISON TENNEY: I want to dive into this immediately. So you have this experience—I'm here to ease suffering. What did you do next? How does one prepare oneself to ease suffering? What does easing suffering look like? What sort of skills did you practice? The call to chaplaincy feels like a very sacred call, to be in communion. What was that like for you? Tell us all about it.  

DAVID HOLDEN: Yeah, so this is—I found one of the few fields that's really great to go into when you're in your 60s. And not that anyone can't do it, and my cohorts at Brigham were all—except for Frank, who was the only student in this building older than me. Everybody is much younger. But what I bring is a wealth of experience, just of life, having grown through my own suffering and trauma and healing.  

But also, the work I do in 12-step as a sponsor is foundational for chaplaincy. So it's different, but it's a continuum. And when I'm working with the sponsee, that's how we describe mentorship in 12 step, and you—going to the meetings is not the program—that's the fellowship. The program is working the steps, and you don't do that by yourself. You have to be guided by an individual with more experience.  

When I'm talking to a sponsee, I'm not thinking about David. And 95 percent of the rest of the time, I'm thinking about David. So there's a freedom and a beauty and a power to being outside yourself, in service to others. And that's what chaplaincy is.  

MADDISON TENNEY: You've talked about, with 12 step and your sponsees, you have this very long-term relationship with somebody. Or if you're a pastor in a congregation, these are people, generationally, that you've been connected to. But chaplaincy is a little bit different. It feels like this calling to provide care and love and kindness and support to someone at a critical moment. And then you may never see them again.  

DAVID HOLDEN: Right.  

MADDISON TENNEY: How are you navigating that emotionally? How do you feel about that? And what are you hoping and expecting?  

DAVID HOLDEN: That's a great question. Try to keep expectations to zero, with various degrees of success, depending on my own spiritual fitness that day. But I bring—I wrap myself in a coat of light before I walk into a room. And I invite higher power to do the talking. That's always worked out pretty well.  

But I'm not expecting to solve any problems. That's not the work. It's to be in accompaniment with someone who is going through some crisis. You're not in the hospital unless something's bad or needs serious attention. So I'm there to listen. I'm there to support. I'm there to offer solace and comfort and prayer, if that is what they want. That's it, to be in conversation.  

Often, people will disclose life stories that they may not have ever shared with anyone because they're not going to see me again, and it's safe. But they need to get this out. So you don't what you're going to get when you walk in the room.  

Often, people don't even what chaplaincy is. I didn't really understand it. I have a lot of conversations post-HDS with my friends. They're, are you a minister? Are you a rabbi? And I say, all ministers and rabbis and priests do chaplaincy as part of their core function, but is also a separate professional career path, without the ordination.  

And pastoral care is short term. So you know going in you may see this person once or twice. Now, there are situations where you really do get to someone. At Brigham, I got to know patients who were there for stem cell transplants. So they're in for a while, isolated, literally. And so you get a chance to get to know folks if they're interested in that kind of relationship. But it's really—you're trying to be open to whatever that person needs in that moment.  

MADDISON TENNEY: I am so fascinated and curious, and I'd love to dive into your experiences in preparing for chaplaincy. You talked a little about spending time with the UU, learning and exploring Judaism. What sort of other classes did you take to help you prepare for this?  

DAVID HOLDEN: Well, Cheryl Giles, who, unfortunately for everyone following, is retired, she—Cheryl was a huge mentor to me and a huge support to my developing a calling to chaplaincy. And I learned about the technical skills and the spiritual skills of caregiving and pastoral care and how that differs from therapy. And Cheryl focuses on trauma. And so I have not met anyone who hasn't experienced trauma.  

Now, that's separate from post-traumatic stress, which is connected, but a very different and much more intractable set of symptoms and conditions. But having a lens of looking at trauma when you walk into the room—not just the trauma of being in a hospital, but life trauma—that's one of the skills that Cheryl helped me to develop.  

And then classes that seem really far afield, like among the best classes I took was “The Book of Baldwin” with Dr. Hucks. But we clicked. And I took that course. I took “Uncle Tom's Cabin and its Diaspora.” And she was my advisor for my thesis. So just being exposed to her energy and aura and the dignity with which she carries herself.  

And then Stephanie [Paulsell]. Yeah. So I wasn't the least bit interested in—the great writer in religion, because I wanted to take a class with her. And it was life-changing, because here's this incredibly brilliant academic, but still deeply compassionate towards students and curious about what students think. What a gift. So to me, all those things contributed to chaplaincy as a calling for me.  

MADDISON TENNEY: Well, can we end with three quick final questions?  

DAVID HOLDEN: Yes.  

MADDISON TENNEY: So we call these our speed round questions. So in a sentence or less, which academics hate, but it is a sentence or less. So first question, what musician or artist are you currently listening to?  

DAVID HOLDEN: Bruce Springsteen.  

MADDISON TENNEY: Classic. Such a good answer. OK, second question, if you could create any class at Harvard Divinity School, what class would you create, and why?  

DAVID HOLDEN: “How to be a Chaplain”  

MADDISON TENNEY: I'm here for it. And then, finally, any words of wisdom you would give your younger self, walking in the doors the first day starting at HDS?  

DAVID HOLDEN: Don't panic.  

MADDISON TENNEY: I think we all needed to hear that. David, this has been one of the coolest interviews I've done. I say thank you for giving us your time and your story.  

DAVID HOLDEN: This has been great. [MUSIC PLAYING]

MADDISON TENNEY: This has been a Harvard Divinity School podcast. Thank you so much to Caroline Cataldo and Jonathan Beasley for editing this podcast. For more information on the show, you can view the show notes or go to the Harvard Divinity School website. [MUSIC PLAYING]